Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Dancing David]

This is a big point for me. If the Sanford PD screwed up so bad and the special prosecutor actually caught them out in it and filed second degree murders charges then why is there no investigation into the corruption of the initial investigation? Why?

This is what tells me they caved to public pressure. Sorry.

Or that there is other evidence that the SPD had not received. (Maybe)

 

[GWCarver]

The prosecution stated clearly the statements made by Zimmerman is contradicted by the evidence.

Is this what you are talking about, from the bond hearing?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But -- and I'm going to get into every little contradiction but wouldn't you agree that a lot of his statements can be contradicted by the evidence either witnesses or just based on what he says himself?

GILBREATH: Yes.

And later...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it true that when you were questioned about the contradictions in your statements that the police didn't believe it, that you would say "I don't remember"?

JUDGE LESTER: I'm going to grant his motion at this time.

What is missing here is any indication of those contradictions being incriminating.

 

[Rare Truth]

You have that reports, where?

Just wondering.

No one has seen the EMT report of the few minutes Z sat in the back of a squad car to get his scratches wiped away. That's coming.

The rest rely on our eyeballs of old tugboat (what his friends affectionately called him) in his jaunty little bandageless six minute stroll through the police station some 35 minutes after his life or death terrorization.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I despise Geraldo, and I find the slant of this Fox interview too much for my tastes, but you can see an video with Brandy Greene and her son here:

INTERVIEW WITH TRAYVONS FATHERS FIANCE CLICK HERE

That was horrible. Here are some quotes:

GR: on that fateful day, he was coming here to watch basketball with you, is that right ?
CG: yes

GR: is this a high crime community
BG: I've been here for 4 years and never heard of any crime going on or anything

GR: So you don't believe it (regarding a rash of recent thefts in the community)
BG: no, no I don't

BG: we had a good bond. I fell in love with him the first time I met him

I don't think it does anything to demonstrate he 'temporarily' lived there or that Chad and TM had any sort of bond. Calling them 'brothers' is just PR nonsense.

What do you think of the fact that Tracy Martin had just split up with his wife of 7 years a few weeks before TM was killed ? Do you think that it's irrelevant to TM relationship with the Greens ?

 

[Noztradamus]

Yeah, why doesn't GZ say "Okay" and stop following TM?

Why doesn't someone ask GZ what TM is doing?

Why doesn't someone ask GZ to let them know what TM is doing?

You mean like "doing" circling the truck, and and coming to the truck to ask Zimmerman why he is following?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

And yes, the Dept. of Justice IS investigating the SPD.

Trayvon Martin Case: Department of Justice to investigate entire Sanford police


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...rtment-of-justice-to-investigate-2266580.html

Does that change your mind?

No. That's the only link I find. When the DOJ agreed to investigate the crime, there was plenty of corroboration. With this, none.

 

[GWCarver]

No one has seen the EMT report of the few minutes Z sat in the back of a squad car to get his scratches wiped away. That's coming.

The rest rely on our eyeballs of old tugboat (what his friends affectionately called him) in his jaunty little bandageless six minute stroll through the police station some 35 minutes after his life or death terrorization.

But, you also must ignore the police report that said Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head.

You can keep pretending it isn't there, but it is never going to go away.

 

[johnny karate]

We can entirely dismiss what GZ said. We don't need his testimony.

We have a witness that's pretty sure TM was beating up GZ. Perhaps two witnesses.

Logically, that's how GZ was injured.

But we're discussing injuries received in a specific way under specific circumstances. It's the difference between claiming one was being beaten and claiming one was being beaten to death. Again, no one can corroborate that Martin was repeatedly bashing Zimmerman's head onto the ground.

 

[johnny karate]

But, you also must ignore the police report that said Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head.

You can keep pretending it isn't there, but it is never going to go away.

Since when is "bleeding" an indication of the severity of an injury? Paper cuts can bleed. That fact that Zimmerman was bleeding tells us nothing.

 

[Rare Truth]

No. That's the only link I find. When the DOJ agreed to investigate the crime, there was plenty of corroboration. With this, none.

Corroboration? Can't find other links?

Huh?

They're all over the place. Here's another:
Police chief steps aside over Trayvon Martin case

Your posts are confusing. (not to mention I wasn't even responding to you in that reply)

 

[Rare Truth]

Since when is "bleeding" an indication of the severity of an injury? Paper cuts can bleed. That fact that Zimmerman was bleeding tells us nothing.

I've drawn more blood shaving my legs.

:/

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Ignoring your bizarre notion that the place where his father was staying wasn't where his loved ones lived,

You don't have to ignore it, I provided evidence for my claim.

a common tactic for home invaders is following a person home, then forcing your way in when they open the door.

That's not really a novel concept and one most people already know.

Fine, home invasion is one possible reason TM shouldn't have run home to safety, and instead hide in the bushes.

Again, let's look at Yahoo and how common sensical that idea is:

Hm, yahoo didn't say anything about hiding in the bushes.

 

[johnny karate]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

GZ claim is quite mundane, and so far isn't contradicted by anything else we have evidence for. So I don't find it unreasonable to accept it.

So... someone claims he was in mortal danger and therefore had to kill another person in self-defense... and you consider that to be a mundane claim?

You are skeptical of most of the individual claims in the chain of events. And by skeptical, I mean you don't believe it because there is no 'evidence'.
You don't believe TM confronted GZ.
You don't believe TM broke GZ nose.
You don't believe TM hit GZ head on the sidewalk.

Here's a list of rather "mundane" claims you disbelieve:

Zimmerman followed Martin.
Zimmerman confronted Martin.
Zimmerman initiated an altercation with Martin.

And you're reasoning for disbelieving any of these claims is.... ?

And because you are being a good skeptic, you decline to propose a workable scenario of what may have happened, you just keep harping on the fact that no one can 'prove' exactly what happened in each specific claim. And if this were some abstract logic puzzle that you needed to solve by proving each step, I guess you would be spot on.

But GZ will not be found guilty if the prosecution cannot disprove his account. It's not going to work if they just focus on each element, like the broken nose, and say 'aha, but you can't prove it!'. You can get away with claiming you have no 'alternate theory' of what happened - but I don't think a jury will be impressed by a team of detectives who don't.

Most of what you say is probably true. However, the standards of the courtroom don't apply here, so I'm not obligated to adhere to them. I can rely of basic skeptical thought.

Now, you're free to consider that my failing, but I think it would be more appropriate to consider it the failing of a legal system that would allow one person to kill another and force the state to disprove he acted in self-defense in order to find him guilty of crime.

 

[Rare Truth]

I don't know what's so funny about that. Zimmerman was found with 2 flashlights, one on his keychain, and another described by the investigator as a tactical flashlight.

It's part of the record.

You can, as they say, look it up.

 

[Unabogie]

You don't have to ignore it, I provided evidence for my claim.



Fine, home invasion is one possible reason TM shouldn't have run home to safety, and instead hide in the bushes.



Hm, yahoo didn't say anything about hiding in the bushes.

Why move the goalposts? You asked why you wouldn't lead a stalker to your home, and clearly, most people understand why. You don't lead them to your home because they may hurt you or your property. You try and lose them first. It's common sense, and most everyone seems to agree on this but you.

 

[GWCarver]

Since when is "bleeding" an indication of the severity of an injury? Paper cuts can bleed. That fact that Zimmerman was bleeding tells us nothing.

Maybe you should use "me" instead of "us". So, here is what I have learned today from this post and Rare Earth's previous post:

1.) Zimmerman not bleeding in the walk through the police station is meaningful.
2.) Zimmerman bleeding at the crime scene is not meaningful.

 

[WildCat]

And that detailed EMT report that shows nary a band-aid.

Oh yeah...

You have an EMT report?

Link?

You didn't just make that up, did you?

 

[johnny karate]

No, I'm contending that Zimmerman really didn't have time to make up a whole ficticious story and that since the evidence supports what he said it's likely he was telling the truth.

Who said anything about a "whole fictitious story"? All Zimmerman would have to do is basically recount what happened while leaving out the parts that reflect poorly on him, and embellishing the parts that reflect poorly on Martin.

Let's not pretend he had to be Keyser Soze weaving some fantastical tale out of thin air.

Do you have evidence that it happened other than the way Zimmerman said it happened and which the evidence corroborates?

Well, first of all, I don't have access to all the evidence, do I? Secondly, here of this forum, if someone claims Martin was bashing Zimmerman's head on the ground, it's not up to me to disprove that claim.

 

[WildCat]

The prosecution stated clearly the statements made by Zimmerman is contradicted by the evidence.

Which statements contradict which evidence, exactly?

 

[WildCat]

No one has seen the EMT report of the few minutes Z sat in the back of a squad car to get his scratches wiped away. That's coming.

So why did you bring it up when you don't even know what's on it and haven't seen it?

The rest rely on our eyeballs of old tugboat (what his friends affectionately called him) in his jaunty little bandageless six minute stroll through the police station some 35 minutes after his life or death terrorization.

Do you have any facts, or just red herrings and appeals to emotion? I'm guessing the latter.