• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged 9/11 No Plane/Energy Weapon discussion thread

I see lots of pieces of steel. But I also see heavy fuming. My theory is that the heavy fuming is coming from steel in the process of disintegration and that same process was what destroyed the WTC in the first place.

It's fine to show the pieces of steel left over, but don't forget what else is in your photograph, and every photograph of the time period: FUMES.

In the process of disintegration???

WHAT? :jaw-dropp

So what happened, in REAL LIFE? Joe steel worker spent the morning cutting a 20 foot section of steel, went to lunch and when he came back it was magically gone?

You don't suppose anyone would raise a red flag at such an amazing, unprecedented event?

Would you please, for the sake of everybody unfortunate enough to read your drivel, THINK before you type?


Pretty please?
 
When I visited Ground Zero less than 72 hours after the attacks, I expected to see a very tall pile of steel and debris. Instead, I only saw a few tall pieces above a ten foot fence and lots of fumes. And, the pieces I saw were not located where WTC 1 or WTC 2 used to stand. They were nearby, but not in the footprint. I saw this with my own eyes. The photographs corroborate my independent observation.

If you "disassembled" the towers and stacked all the materials into a 208' x 208' square, how high would that stack approximately be?

Let's say 110 concrete floors at 4" thick to start. That's 36.6' high. What else?
 
When I visited Ground Zero less than 72 hours after the attacks, I expected to see a very tall pile of steel and debris. Instead, I only saw a few tall pieces above a ten foot fence and lots of fumes. And, the pieces I saw were not located where WTC 1 or WTC 2 used to stand. They were nearby, but not in the footprint. I saw this with my own eyes. The photographs corroborate my independent observation.

In what capacity were you at ground zero?
 
Stellafane,

Thank you for your reply; it adds to the substance of the thread, in the sense that it reveals certain misapprehensions on your part. However, to your credit, your misapprehensions appear to be based on an actual review of Dr. Wood's material and not on a diatribe. Further, your presentation is thoughtful, in my opinion.

Thank you for the thorough and thoughtful reply. The reason I asked about the DEW specifically, is because as I pointed out in post #666 (yeah, the Number of the Beast and all that), the use of such a device to bring down the WTC is impossible. It cannot have happened the way Dr. Wood describes. This really isn't a matter of opinion; it's a matter of fact. A spaced-based weapon would be observable from the ground, while a ground-based weapon would have left an explosive trail of vaporized matter between it and the WTC. Neither happened on 9/11. Add to this the fact that a full-scale working DEW has never been demonstrated as feasible, nor has Dr. Wood provided an iota of evidence that such a thing physically exists. Those are formidable barriers that can only be surmounted by a preponderance of unambiguous, verifiable proof.

While it might again be fruitless to say this, I will do so anyway. Dr. Wood makes no claim that the annihilation of the WTC complex was done by weapons in space or by space beams. Rather, that claim is much like that of Beachnut raising Flight 93 and then claiming I'm off-topic for raising Flight 93 in a thread about Dr. Wood.

Thus, those who seek to debunk the space beam claim are really only debunking themselves and not Dr. Wood.

Do you copy, Stellafane? Is there anything in the foregoing sentence that you need clarification on? And, whatever you do, please do not claim your source for attributing the space beam claim to Dr. Wood is a webcast transcript where three people are talking at once and Dr. Wood gives a one word reply of "Yes" as your source for claiming Dr. Wood supports or advocates space beams. The only noteworthy thing about that claim is that it appears to be the most often relied on source for attributing that claim to her. That, in and of itself, is a clear indicator she makes no such claim.

It is not found either on her website or in her book, each of which are the true sources of her claims, her information and her proof.



Instead, she offers up as evidence a rather muddled observation connecting the Earth's magnetic field with the weather -- which, as I explain in post #674 is another impossibility and indicates that Dr. Wood simply does not understand the science involved. Again, the fact that Dr. Wood is seriously in error is not a matter of interpretation or dispute, as a simple review of basic science texts will prove.

I have taken a look at your post # 674 and do not find it all that compelling. You make arguments about what can or cannot be attributed to weather, but you do so in a limited context. For instance, you do not seem to consider weather modification tactics; or, for that matter, the subject of energy weapons, which is the real claim made by Dr. Wood, as I understand it.

In short, Dr. Wood's DEW theory does not make any sense. She presents no evidence for the existence of the DEW, she cannot explain why no one has seen what should be the abundant evidence it has left behind, and the evidence she does present is based on bogus science.

The above, and in particular that part that states "Dr. Wood's DEW theory does not make any sense" is based on a misapprehension of what Dr. Wood has actually done and said.

You presume she has a theory. I am not aware that she has a theory as she only presents evidence and an analysis of the evidence. Forensic science is not about producing a theory; it’s about determining what happened.

I might add that the problem here may be as old as the divergence between Aristotle on the one hand, Plato on the other. For Aristotle, reality was empirically derived, based on what could be sensed; i.e., seen and heard for the most part because that is how humans sense reality. For Plato, the role of internal knowledge, based on deduction, was given primacy.

I think one thing can be said with high accuracy:

The work done by Dr. Wood is highly empirical, it is based to a very large extent on the record of what was seen. Hence, the super-abundance of photographic data. Seeing is believing, right?

It also presumes too much, in my opinion, for you to make a claim about "what she can or cannot explain?" Similarly, it is an oxymoron to state, as you have done, that “evidence” is “based on bogus science”?

Evidence is evidence. You can analyze it, ignore it, form conclusions about it, form opinions about it, but you cannot PRODUCE evidence FROM opinions.

Perhaps you need to clarify. Evidence can be tainted; it can also be tampered with. We've seen an example of that in this thread with the toasted car picture that debunkers cling to, right?

This does not necessarily invalidate all of Dr. Wood's work, of course -- many people can be very wrong about one thing and still be correct about others. But in this case, it's not so much that Dr. Wood is in error, it's how she's in error: flying directly in the face of all known science. To me, this must call into question her other conclusions, because if they're products of similarly sloppy thinking and scholarship, I don't think they can be taken seriously. And in any case, if one extracts the DEW from Dr. Wood's overall scenario of what happened on 9/11, what is one left with? By what other mechanism was the WTC brought down?


If you have formed your own opinion about what happened based on reviewing the evidence and if your opinion contradicts the evidence, it is not the evidence that is wrong; it’s his own opinion that is wrong. Evidence cannot be wrong. It can be wrongly interpreted, to be sure; and it can be incomplete. However, the issue of incompleteness applies in spades to the official attempts to explain 9/11; yet, debunkers seem willing, on a grand scale, to overlook that incompleteness, even though the incompletness factor has been openly acknowledged, admitted and otherwise disclosed.

In short, permit me to suggest you would benefit from reading Dr. Wood’s book so that you might know what she does or does not present in it with a greater degree of accuracy than you currently possess.


Blessings
 
Last edited:
When I visited Ground Zero less than 72 hours after the attacks, I expected to see a very tall pile of steel and debris.

Unfortunately your expectation was irrelevant to the facts. You are simply confusing the two, either deliberately or accidentally.

If you were behaving rationally, you'd use some of the many months and years you've had researching to learn about the steel cleanup operations. You'd have discovered with some accuracy what the quantity was.
You still do not have this fundamental info, which is a terrible indictment of your poor research methodology.

'It doesn't look right' is not good enough. Any idiot can make that claim.
 
I said fumes, and I meant fumes. What was going on in the WTC wasn't an ordinary fire, so I refuse to call that stuff smoke. Smoke from a regular fire is largely hydrocarbon, and the fumes didn't smell like that. They didn't smell like anything I had ever smelled before. <---This is independently verified by anyone who does a google search on "WTC stench" or "WTC smell". Many people were confused by the smell.

This is just sad. You handwave away fire or smouldering debris as a cause for the smoke rising from the piles, based SOLEY on your opinion that it didn't smell like a regular fire???

Do you want people to laugh at you for presenting half-baked arguments from incredulity? Ok, then we will! LMAO that's so lame and pathetic for a purported PhD.
Someone used the word 'drivel' to describe your unfiltered incredulity. I think that's the perfect description for your entire line of thought: drivel.

I'll make a prediction: if you don't make a serious attempt to salvage your scientific skills, you WILL remain out of work, you WILL not have a career in science going forward. What you're doing here is a complete embarrassment to you, an outrageous abomination masquerading as 'scientific inquiry'.

There are several scientists in my circle of family and friends, they all have successful and long careers. You're not even close to measuring up to any one of them. Not even close.

I sincerely hope you break free from whatever it is that has you in its thrall. If you do, I think there is hope you may become a working scientist again. If not, I think you're done.

That's it for me. I'm not wasting any more time entertaining your ideas - they're poppycock, drivel, nonsense. Period.

Consider yourself on ignore. I hope you get well.
 
This is where your understanding falters. No planes is proved by my dust samples. The video evidence doesn't disprove my dust sample results, but video evidence isn't what I base my no planes theory on.
It proves you have an imagination and disrespect those who were murdered on 911 by making up idiotic lies. How the building fall, and you say, not by gravity. You are unable to do reality, your signature is proof. RADAR, you can't comprehend, and you have no clue what the electromagnetic spectrum is.



Your dust samples prove you can make up a big lie with dust. You make up nonsense with simple props. :)
 
Jammy, do you own a copy of her book?

Evidently, I do :D

mybook.jpg



ps

Your avatar, but not necessarily your posting style, reminds me of a poster named "lapman"

Just sayin...
 
Jammy, do you own a copy of her book?

Who else would buy it? The books for the people who can't do physics, and think jet engine parts are wheel covers. The book for those who don't want to think for themselves, and like paranoid conspiracy theories cooked up extra dumb, and flaky.
 
While it might again be fruitless to say this, I will do so anyway. Dr. Wood makes no claim that the annihilation of the WTC complex was done by weapons in space or by space beams. Rather, that claim is much like that of Beachnut raising Flight 93 and then claiming I'm off-topic for raising Flight 93 in a thread about Dr. Wood.

Jammie - you understand of course, that "space beams" comes from what Wood says - "DEW" - Directed Energy Weapons.

There is no place on this planet that could have taken place and not left massive amounts of evidence and ancillary destruction behind.

So if it's not on this planet, the remaining options are rather limited, wouldn't you say?
 
Evidently, I do :D

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/mybook.jpg[/qimg]

Great, can you answer this question from yesterday?

The author's preface has a clear statement that no claims that Bush or anyone else perpetrated the annihilation of the WTC complex on 9/11 are made.
The author's preface says there are no claims about government conspiracy in her class, or in the book?

You have the book don't you? Care to quote the relevant passage for us?
 
Actually, I do understand scale. I also understand that in photographs, absent the data associated with how the photo was taken, no claims about scale can be made.

So you can't judge scale in a photograph based on the objects IN the photograph?


Man you people come up with the most bizarre statements.
 
The issue was the claim that cars seen to have been toasted on FDR Drive were towed there. That is a debunker claim that has not been supported, other than by reference to one phony photo, crafted and constructed and/or posted for the first time in 2011, I think.

Actually, the company that I worked for at the time rented machines to crews at GZ that were used to load said "toasted" cars to be moved to the FDR and for the cleanup. 2 other companies that I'm friends with rented machines for the same thing. One of them rented the machines that helped move the steel into hangar 17. That doubled over column took 2 forklifts that each had a 30,000 and 40,000lb capacity rating (@ A 96" load center).
 
Great, can you answer this question from yesterday?

I decline to do posters' homework for them. I gave the source, that is sufficient.

As you know, I do not undertake to prove anything to anyone. I make claims and I substantiate them. But, I do not comply with posters' demands for more proof; instead, I suggest posters make claims of their own if they have any to make.
 
Analogies are good. Here's a different one. If you saw a video of a car traveling 100 MPH that passed right by a girl with long hair not tied up or in braids, and her hair didn't fly around in the video, would you think that was strange?

What did the plane fly past that we could see move.:confused:
 
So you can't judge scale in a photograph based on the objects IN the photograph?


Man you people come up with the most bizarre statements.

No, not in the absence of knowing the type of lens, degree of zoom, location of photographer and so on.

I don't know why you find it necessary to express exasperation? Once again, if the perception is that I have said something that is incorrect, why is it not adequate to simply say "I think you are incorrect"?

As to your post, let me be clear:

I think you are incorrect in assuming scale can be judged based on objects in the photograph. I think you are incorrect.
 
This is where your understanding falters. No planes is proved by my dust samples. The video evidence doesn't disprove my dust sample results, but video evidence isn't what I base my no planes theory on.

That's the sample that you cannot even say what elements or compounds they contain? What did they do to you in Pharmacology that made you forget the scientific method?
 
I decline to do posters' homework for them. I gave the source, that is sufficient.

As you know, I do not undertake to prove anything to anyone. I make claims and I substantiate them. But, I do not comply with posters' demands for more proof; instead, I suggest posters make claims of their own if they have any to make.

I'm only asking you to do the bolded part.

ETA: In fact, you haven't even done the trivial part and clarified your own claim. I'll make it easy, multiple choice.

The author's preface has a clear statement that no claims that Bush or anyone else perpetrated the annihilation of the WTC complex on 9/11 are made __________.

A) In her class
B) In her book
 
Last edited:

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom