Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[marplots]

It has happened. Of course. Did it happen in this case? Some people think they know. Some of us know we don't.

I have no idea what happened. There's enough conjecture and spinning in this thread to make me think "reasonable doubt" isn't going to be overcome. I'll wait for the trial and even then I'll still wonder about some details. Life is like that.

I wonder if the attorneys involved are reading these 2,000 posts for ideas.

 

[RandFan]

I have no idea what happened. There's enough conjecture and spinning in this thread to make me think "reasonable doubt" isn't going to be overcome. I'll wait for the trial and even then I'll still wonder about some details. Life is like that.

I wonder if the attorneys involved are reading these 2,000 posts for ideas.

I'm sure they affectionately refer to us as the JREF think tank.

 

[WildCat]

a tactical flashlight

 

[WildCat]

This is what it said in the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Handbook:
^^^^ Emphasis THEIRS.

And your evidence that Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation with Martin, or attempted to detain him is...? Oh, right, you just made that part up.

 

[WildCat]

You are making stuff up again. None of this has anything to do with my position. People with weapons must exercise personal responsibility. The facts are:

• GZ was armed.
• GZ was suspicious of TM.
• GZ had no basis to believe that a crime had been committed.
• GZ had no basis to believe there was any imminent danger.

Did Zimmerman deny he was armed?

Did Zimmerman deny he was suspicious of Martin?

Did Zimmerman ever claim a crime had been committed?

I'm not sure at what point in time you are describing with #4, but he says he believed his life was in danger when he shot him.

 

[LTC8K6]

Doesn't matter. Neighborhood Watch Captain George was specifically instructed not to get physically involved in people reported as suspicious, nor investigate suspicious activity.

But I think GZ's testimony is going to be that he had no intention of getting anywhere near TM. I also think the evidence reflects that.

I think seeing where TM went is far from "investigating".

 

[WildCat]

Are you going to ignore the question about whether or not the location of Martin's death refutes what you just wrote? From the photos, I conclude that Zimmerman was blocking his way home. If I'm right about the location, do you agree?

You should rush your expert findings directly to the prosecutor's office. I bet you will even testify at the trial as an expert witness!

 

[LTC8K6]

Did he need to see where TM went?

GZ apparently thought so, which is really all that will matter in court. (Or possibly not, if a judge/jury don't agree)

I was not there. I didn't see how TM was behaving. I don't know if I would have thought TM was a criminal.

It was not unreasonable, imo, for GZ to want to see where TM went.

He couldn't do that from the truck, even if he moved the truck, as far as I can tell.

 

[Cylinder]

a tactical flashlight

Yea, it's crazy that we allow these high-capacity assualt flashlights in the hands of torch nuts.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Are you going to ignore the question about whether or not the location of Martin's death refutes what you just wrote? From the photos, I conclude that Zimmerman was blocking his way home. If I'm right about the location, do you agree?

No, I don't agree that there is any photographic evidence that demonstrates GZ blocked TM from returning home.

Did you find any info on that criminal conviction yet ?

 

[Xulld]

And of course unless a claim can be disproved, that claim must automatically be assumed true. This is exactly how skeptical thought works.

The burden of proof is squarely on the accuser. What evidence contradicts the statement? If none then there is no case. This has nothing to do with belief, we can still believe any narrative we want, or not believe any of them and remain skeptical, but a conviction requires more.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that . . . .

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That was a point they made specifically in the context of the legality of Zimmerman carrying a firearm. You'll note that despite the question being framed to indicate Zimmerman was acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member, that fact is not denied in the response.

No, it was not.

I wonder if that is more important for the legal case, or a potential lawsuit ?

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2012/04/homeowners-association-could-be-liable-in-trayvon-martins-death/

I'm not sure how that discussion would be relevant. It has been acknowledged that Zimmerman was acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member.

I'm curious how the SPD determined he was acting as a member of the neighborhood watch, but yeah, that answer isn't going to be found here.

 

[LTC8K6]

No, it was not.

I wonder if that is more important for the legal case, or a potential lawsuit ?

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2012/04/homeowners-association-could-be-liable-in-trayvon-martins-death/



I'm curious how the SPD determined he was acting as a member of the neighborhood watch, but yeah, that answer isn't going to be found here.

As far as I know, GZ was going to the store when he noticed TM.

One could say GZ then went into "neighborhood watch" mode, I suppose.

I don't think GZ was doing a neighborhood watch patrol at the time he noticed TM's behavior.

I think it benefits someone's case to put it that way, and a judge/jury may not see a distinction anyway.

 

[Unabogie]

No, I don't agree that there is any photographic evidence that demonstrates GZ blocked TM from returning home.

Did you find any info on that criminal conviction yet ?

Are you being obtuse? If my location is correct, then would Zimmerman have been blocking Martin's way home, yes or no?

And we all know that Zimmerman assaulted a cop and yada, yada, pretrial diversion, yada yada anger management.

How about I just call him a "cop assaulter" instead of a criminal?

 

[bookworm]

So the only possible explanation for Zimmerman's injuries is that Martin repeatedly smashed his head onto the ground?

Well, since that was the statement he gave immediately after the incident and since someone saw M on top of Z and since he did have a bloody head to back it up, I would say that's the logical conclusion.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Are you being obtuse? If my location is correct, then would Zimmerman have been blocking Martin's way home, yes or no?

No ?

"That puts the altercation off to the far side of the short sidewalk, not along Trayvon's path home. "


Can you not upload a map/picture with an X on it or something ?
How about mark it on here:http://justoneminute.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b2aa69e201676468b143970b-pi

And we all know that Zimmerman assaulted a cop and yada, yada, pretrial diversion, yada yada anger management.

How about I just call him a "cop assaulter" instead of a criminal?

Well, apparently we did not all know he is not a convicted criminal.

And you should call him an ATF agent shover if you want to be accurate.

 

[Dancing David]

Because hiding in the bushed in the dark is apparently preferable to being home safe and having a scary man know your home address.

Thats nice and when you have GZ's or someones testimony you won't have to add, speculative, to it. Was this testified to in the bond hearing?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Thats nice and when you have GZ's or someones testimony you won't have to add, speculative, to it. Was this testified to in the bond hearing?

That's true. Should we not speculate or discuss theories and timeline and such until then ? That would be a long wait.

A number of posters have pointed out the horrors of having a bad man who pursues you know where you live, and have supposed that TM hid instead of going home.

Therefore, I was just drawing the conclusion that cowering in the bushes is preferable to being home safe and having a scary man know your home address.
Disagree ?

 

[Unabogie]

No ?

"That puts the altercation off to the far side of the short sidewalk, not along Trayvon's path home. "

Can you not upload a map/picture with an X on it or something ?
How about mark it on here:http://justoneminute.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b2aa69e201676468b143970b-pi

On your map, you have a red line that says Fox 35. That is where I think the photo shows the body. So flip the angle around and the photo is shot from where you have the body on your map (the circle) but from right there on the sidewalk.

I think that you have the angles reversed, based on that image and the location of those two trees.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

On your map, you have a red line that says Fox 35. That is where I think the photo shows the body. So flip the angle around and the photo is shot from where you have the body on your map (the circle) but from right there on the sidewalk.

I think that you have the angles reversed, based on that image and the location of those two trees.

The map goes with this (not mine)
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/03/last-map-of-the-retreat-at-twin-lakes.html

I disagree with a number of things on that map, but the body was approx where that red circle is. Just below the T on the left side. And that is where you see it in the pic you linked to, just a little N of that red circle.