Discussion: Conspiracy Theorists and Ron Paul

[LightinDarkness]

As its another US presidential election cycle, its that time again for those from the conspiracy theorist/associated fruitcake community to endorse their favorite political candidate: Ron Paul.

Its not unusual that CTers go after someone that has no chance of ever becoming reality - Ron Paul will never win and never has stood a chance. Anyone who has even a modicum of political knowledge knows that. But what I find fascinating is how CTers all seem to love Ron Paul, even when they have completely different political views. No matter where they fall on the political scale - (although most CTers I know are hysterically left or right, very few centrists) - they all want him to win.

Its as if CTers simply project their fantasies onto him. It doesn't matter what his politics really are, they just want to believe. They need to believe there is someone out there standing against THE MAN/federal reserve. Whats unusual is why this only seems to happen to Ron Paul. There have been other fruitcake candidates endorsed by small section of the kook community - for example, many far left CTers LOVED Dennis Kucinich, who in many ways (like electability) never had a chance at the presidency.

The fanaticism from the CT community for Ron Paul has translated into him being able to play RNC convention games by gaming state nominating conventions, and I have no doubt they'll cause RNC convention drama...but they try to do that every election cycle. And it never changes anything, but they keep on supporting him.

Thoughts?

 

[LightinDarkness]

Take for example Exhibit #1 from kook central, GLP:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1861822/pg1

Some random county chair (1 out of thousands) wrote a "letter of protest" over the GOP not supporting Ron Paul. This will have absolutely 0 impact on anything, but over on GLP they are acting like its the beginning of the "revolution."

 

[IdiotWhacker]

Take for example Exhibit #1 from kook central, GLP:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1861822/pg1

Some random county chair (1 out of thousands) wrote a "letter of protest" over the GOP not supporting Ron Paul. This will have absolutely 0 impact on anything, but over on GLP they are acting like its the beginning of the "revolution."

There is a conspiracy that the news agencies are censoring Ron Paul in favor for the secret society candidates.

 

[Horatius]

It gives them the illusion of "winning", without the difficulty of actually having to step up and do the job. After the election, they can spend the next four years telling each other how much better it would have been if the sheeple had listened to them, without any risk of actually having to do anything.

 

[LightinDarkness]

It gives them the illusion of "winning", without the difficulty of actually having to step up and do the job. After the election, they can spend the next four years telling each other how much better it would have been if the sheeple had listened to them, without any risk of actually having to do anything.

Good point. And I guess since they deep down really know they have no chance no matter how much time they spend drinking the Ron Paul kool aid, it doesnt really matter what Ron Paul believes. Even the far left wing conspiracy theorists can support him!

 

[Galteeth]

As its another US presidential election cycle, its that time again for those from the conspiracy theorist/associated fruitcake community to endorse their favorite political candidate: Ron Paul.

Its not unusual that CTers go after someone that has no chance of ever becoming reality - Ron Paul will never win and never has stood a chance. Anyone who has even a modicum of political knowledge knows that. But what I find fascinating is how CTers all seem to love Ron Paul, even when they have completely different political views. No matter where they fall on the political scale - (although most CTers I know are hysterically left or right, very few centrists) - they all want him to win.

Its as if CTers simply project their fantasies onto him. It doesn't matter what his politics really are, they just want to believe. They need to believe there is someone out there standing against THE MAN/federal reserve. Whats unusual is why this only seems to happen to Ron Paul. There have been other fruitcake candidates endorsed by small section of the kook community - for example, many far left CTers LOVED Dennis Kucinich, who in many ways (like electability) never had a chance at the presidency.

The fanaticism from the CT community for Ron Paul has translated into him being able to play RNC convention games by gaming state nominating conventions, and I have no doubt they'll cause RNC convention drama...but they try to do that every election cycle. And it never changes anything, but they keep on supporting him.

Thoughts?

As someone who supports Ron Paul, and has had experience dealing with these people, I'll offer a theory.

The common thread behind conspiracy theorists is that some group is secretly manipulating events for nefarious purposes. Since Paul is generally anti-authoritarian and outside of the political establishment, it is a natural fit. Paul is also a big tent kind of guy in this way, in that he'll talk to guys like Alex Jones, and agree with some things he says, while saying nothing with regards to the crazy stuff. This comes from a long time of having to create a coalition of the fringe so to speak.

It's worth noting that not all Paul supporters are conspiracy theorists, although there is a strong tendency obviously to be skeptical of the government and the mainstream media.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Its as if CTers simply project their fantasies onto him. It doesn't matter what his politics really are, they just want to believe. They need to believe there is someone out there standing against THE MAN/federal reserve. Whats unusual is why this only seems to happen to Ron Paul. There have been other fruitcake candidates endorsed by small section of the kook community - for example, many far left CTers LOVED Dennis Kucinich, who in many ways (like electability) never had a chance at the presidency.

Spot on!!

I posted this in Scott Summers' thread about Ron Paul and 9/11 Truth:

You beat me to it, Scott! I was just about to start a thread asking "Is Ron Paul a Truther?" myself.

Here he is flat out denying a belief in an inside job:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/01/ron-paul-911-conspiracy-theories_n_1178492.html

And again:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b8e_1198029301

I definitely think he's a nut in other ways, but I don't think he's a truthy-flavoured nut.

I think truthers and conspiritards imagine he's a truther because it suits their agenda.

And I think politics freaks do the same thing. Maybe some debunkers do too.

Let's not get carried away.

Link to thread, in which my last highlighted point was proven correct:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228532

 

[jargon buster]

It gives them the illusion of "winning", without the difficulty of actually having to step up and do the job. After the election, they can spend the next four years telling each other how much better it would have been if the sheeple had listened to them, without any risk of actually having to do anything.

+1
And if by some miracle he actually won they would round on him like a pack of dogs claiming him to be a NWO stooge.
Also the fact that he got enough votes to win would make the CTrs look like sheeple themselves if they followed him.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Indiana's primary was yesterday. I find it very telling that Rick Santorum, a candidate who withdrew from the race nearly a month ago, got nearly as many votes as Ron Paul.

 

[LSSBB]

How many of the CTers would flock to Gary Johnson once the GOP convention is over, I wonder? He is not as much a Dove and he is pro-legalization. I don't think he has been as beholden to CT talk. His big plus is he is not a creationist as Paul is.

 

[Scott Sommers]

Thank you Orphia. We have also talked about the Ron Paul Revolution here and their friends in the conspiracy movement on other threads.
Does the Idea of a 9/11 Conspiracy Matter Anymore?
It is not relevant that Ron Paul will never win or that Ron Paul himself is not a 9/11 Truther. Truthers are now a lobby group in the same way as ant-psychiatry movement or neurodiversity. In fact, I think they have much more influence now than any of these other wacky ideas about cultural diversity.

 

[Orphia Nay]

+1
And if by some miracle he actually won they would round on him like a pack of dogs claiming him to be a NWO stooge.
Also the fact that he got enough votes to win would make the CTrs look like sheeple themselves if they followed him.

Exactly! Funny AND true.

 

[BravesFan]

I wish they would have their "revolution" and get enough support at the grassroots to start a Ct Party. They could run Alex Jones for office!!! (any office I don't care).

Can you imagine the debates? It would be like a golden halo of incredible entertainment! Could you imagine this scenario?:

Texas Southern District US Senatorial Debate:

Moderator:" How would each of you handle the issue of illegal and legal aliens here in Texas?"

Alex Jones (Loon Party Candidate)- Umm, do you mean The Tadarians or the Reptoids? I don't think your question was specific enough, but I will deal with both just to clarify my position....."

 

[Horatius]

I wish they would have their "revolution" and get enough support at the grassroots to start a Ct Party. They could run Alex Jones for office!!! (any office I don't care).

Can you imagine the debates? It would be like a golden halo of incredible entertainment! Could you imagine this scenario?

Yeah, except they'll never actually do that. If they keep trying to get Ron Paul in as a Republican, they can pretend their continued failures are a result of the "entrenched party apparatus" conspiring to fix the primaries and nomination conventions. If they had to run their own party, they'd be faced with realizing that, even given absolute control over their policies and messages, the electorate still won't vote for them.

Take a look at the Canadian Action Party, which has quite a few CTs as parts of their party platform. Then take a look at their electoral results since their inception in 1997. Their number of candidates and votes went up between their first and second election runs, but both those numbers have been in steady decline in every election since then.

Even in off-year by-elections, they have trouble getting even half a percentage point in the popular vote. Their absolute best result ever was a by-election on Sept. 11, 2000 for Okanagan-Coquihalla. Jack William Peach got 1,159 votes (4.19%). This by-election was called so Stockwell Day, the new leader of the Alliance party could get a seat in Parliament, and the Liberal party didn't even run a candidate against him (a common courtesy in such situations). So they picked up a few Liberal voters who wanted to vote against Day, and probably just picked a name at random. If you look at the results for the Green Party and the Independent candidates, you'll see they all picked up votes that way.

 

[Scott Sommers]

Yeah, except they'll never actually do that. If they keep trying to get Ron Paul in as a Republican, they can pretend their continued failures are a result of the "entrenched party apparatus" conspiring to fix the primaries and nomination conventions. If they had to run their own party, they'd be faced with realizing that, even given absolute control over their policies and messages, the electorate still won't vote for them.

Take a look at the Canadian Action Party, which has quite a few CTs as parts of their party platform. Then take a look at their electoral results since their inception in 1997. Their number of candidates and votes went up between their first and second election runs, but both those numbers have been in steady decline in every election since then.

Even in off-year by-elections, they have trouble getting even half a percentage point in the popular vote. Their absolute best result ever was a by-election on Sept. 11, 2000 for Okanagan-Coquihalla. Jack William Peach got 1,159 votes (4.19%). This by-election was called so Stockwell Day, the new leader of the Alliance party could get a seat in Parliament, and the Liberal party didn't even run a candidate against him (a common courtesy in such situations). So they picked up a few Liberal voters who wanted to vote against Day, and probably just picked a name at random. If you look at the results for the Green Party and the Independent candidates, you'll see they all picked up votes that way.

A comparison of Ron Paul with the CAP is not quite correct. There is no tradition of conspiracy politics in Canada. In addition, the state apparatus has great credibility in Canada. It is not uncommon to see Canadian supporters of the CAP promoting Ron Paul brand of liberty while at the same time explaining how the evil Conservatives are trying to dismantle state health insurance.

Conspiracy politics in the USA has a long and esteemed history. It has been a welcomed part of the Republicans for decades and has a strong representation among its major media figures (like Glenn Beck) and its informal branches found in the Tea Parties. This is nothing new. What Ron Paul has done is to be able to get out conspiracy theorists who, in the past, have not voted and who see their vote largely in terms of its promotion of a conspiracy interpretation of history.

 

[LordXenu]

How many of the CTers would flock to Gary Johnson once the GOP convention is over, I wonder? He is not as much a Dove and he is pro-legalization. I don't think he has been as beholden to CT talk. His big plus is he is not a creationist as Paul is.

Very few CTers will vote for Gary Johnson (or anyone else in the Libertarian Party). I would say none would, but I'm sure there is at least one CTer who would so I can't say none. Back in 2008 when Bob Barr was the Libertarian presidential candidate, all the CTers I saw were talking about they were going to write in Ron Paul. None of them were going to vote for Bob Barr in 2008 so I don't see any CTers (except a handful) voting for Gary Johnson.

Most CTers consider Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party to be part of "the system" and thus controlled by the bankers, the Jews, the Rockefellers, the communists, or whoever else they think runs the world. (Those of you who read the stundie threads are familiar with Hawaiian libertarian who provides a good example of this. He even went as far to change his blogging name from "Hawaiian Libertarian" to "Hawiian libertarian" to make it clear that he has nothing to do with the Libertarian Party because they are part of "the system".)

Anyone who has even a modicum of political knowledge knows that. But what I find fascinating is how CTers all seem to love Ron Paul, even when they have completely different political views. No matter where they fall on the political scale - (although most CTers I know are hysterically left or right, very few centrists) - they all want him to win.

I have noticed the same thing. Usually that's because Ron Paul is against "the system" (and they believe there is no political party that isn't part of "the system") or the Federal Reserve which to them is the most important thing.

Whats unusual is why this only seems to happen to Ron Paul.

My guess is if the internet had existed and was widely available decades ago, the same thing would have happened to Lyndon LaRouche.

 

[1337m4n]

This is also one of the classic examples of CTists shooting themselves in the foot because they don't understand PR and refuse to acknowledge that most of the American public hates the lot of them.

Their "support" actually hurts Paul in the long run. They've effectively *created* an association between Ron Paul and 9/11 conspiracy theories, holocaust denial, and "racial science". What happens then is when the average voter thinks of Ron Paul, they think "oh, that fringe candidate whose supporters include all those wacky conspiracy nuts". The more CTists and Stormfronters tout Ron Paul as "their candidate", the worse he looks in the eyes of the general public.

If they were smart, they would simply keep their mouths shut until the moment they actually cast their votes. Then again, if they were smart, they wouldn't be CTists and Stormfronters in the first place..

 

[Galileo]

Take for example Exhibit #1 from kook central, GLP:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1861822/pg1

Some random county chair (1 out of thousands) wrote a "letter of protest" over the GOP not supporting Ron Paul. This will have absolutely 0 impact on anything, but over on GLP they are acting like its the beginning of the "revolution."

Time 2 Revolt!

 

[Galileo]

Indiana's primary was yesterday. I find it very telling that Rick Santorum, a candidate who withdrew from the race nearly a month ago, got nearly as many votes as Ron Paul.

not surprising when you consider how many uninformed & uneducated sheeple participate in elections. Then combine that with our pathetic public school system and a media that focuses on sports & entertainment, and then it is not a surprise at all when you get the facts.