Nosi
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North Korea is that theroghly rotten neighbor who allways beats his dog. You hate him but you don't know how to get rid of him.
How does North Korea End?
- Thread starter Caper
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North Korea is that theroghly rotten neighbor who allways beats his dog. You hate him but you don't know how to get rid of him.
Nosi
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Agreed unfortunately
I wonder if that's true. Fortunately, populations seem to have internal resistance to totalitarian programming, and don't in fact turn into the robots they appear to become after decades of this kind of tyranny.Yeah the best scenario is going to be a bloody nightmare for these people - virtually the whole population is going to have to go to a nut house to get de-programed
The example of Ceausescu's Romania, which vanished overnight, is instructive. Ceausescu based his style of rule on North Korea's example and imitated it as well as he could. But it was he who needed a sojourn in the nut house, not his unfortunate subjects.
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No, but there are radio jammers on the border. The regime also mandates all radio sets to be locked to certain frequencies and sealed. The seals are frequently checked, I'd rather not think what the penalty for a broken seal is.
One in ten males of all ages serve in the military, away from access to the outside world. That is backed up by huge "special forces", the largest in the world in fact, which I suspect are just more thoroughly indoctrinated bunch to keep the regular conscripts in line if they do revolt. As a result there is very little that can be done on the inside.
Sure, a simultaneous uprising in several cities, combined with an uprising of a significant part of the military would likely strain even that ... but as unrealistic possibility as that is, there is another problem: China doesn't want change (not yet, they say), and may even intervene again to put it down. It would be easy for them, I suspect most resistance would collapse quickly if they intervened, out of simple despair.
So ... right now there is very little that we can hope to happen.
I concur on both counts
McHrozni
trustbutverify
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Wandering anywhere near the NC border might efficiently accomplish that.
This.
The world is full of failed states in one form or another. It's like asking, "How will Somalia end?"
Seismosaurus
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Does anybody concerned actually want North Korea to end?
Face it, if that place collapses then somebody will have to step in - South Korea, China, the US, the UN, some combination, whatever - but somebody. And they'll have an utter catastrophe on their hands. Rebuilding Iraq has been a job of nearly ten years, at a cost of trillions, and it's not exactly a garden spot today. How long would it take to rebuild North Korea? How much would it cost, and who wants to pay it?
Surely nobody really wants to step into that mess. But maintaining the status quo... well, that's in everyone's interests. Except for the North Korean people, of course, but who cares about them?
Face it, if that place collapses then somebody will have to step in - South Korea, China, the US, the UN, some combination, whatever - but somebody. And they'll have an utter catastrophe on their hands. Rebuilding Iraq has been a job of nearly ten years, at a cost of trillions, and it's not exactly a garden spot today. How long would it take to rebuild North Korea? How much would it cost, and who wants to pay it?
Surely nobody really wants to step into that mess. But maintaining the status quo... well, that's in everyone's interests. Except for the North Korean people, of course, but who cares about them?
South Koreans?
Eddie Dane
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I'm not so sure.
I used to work with a guy who lived in Berlin when the wall fell.
The euphoria lasted less than a day. After that, the sentiment in West Berlin was 'say, can we put that wall back up?'
West Germany splashed am ungodly amount of money on the formerly communist east.
The result: a still poor east, full of resentful 'Ossies' who hate the 'arrogant Wessies'.
The differences in culture, attitude, economy, infrastructure, education level etc between NK ans SK makes Germany look positively Utopian.
ETA:
OTOH: they could set up production in NK, as long as they don't make the mistake of letting NK have the same currency as SK.
The education system will have to be some kind of cult-deprogramming thing, though.
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Caper
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Very good post.
Caper
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Good post. About East Germany.... they would want the wall to go up .... until it actually went up again. That seems to be human nature. When I was going out with my wife (before we were married) I would constantly dream about being single and how awesome it would be....... and then she dumped me.
Eddie Dane
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Wait, your wife dumped you when you were still dating, but you got to marry her anyway?
Do you live in Saudi Arabia?
Comparison with Iraq is not the very best comparison you can make. Iraq is very diverse ethnically, religiously and geographically, with the formerly dominating ethnic group having access to by far the least resources, and with the largest single group, which was oppressed, also having a puppeteer next to them in the form of Iran. The presence of Islamic fanatics complicates the matters further. None of these are nearly as important in North Korea.
That said, yes, the country is a dump and would need to be rebuilt from the foundations up, and without the oil profits to finance anything. It's still a gargantuan task that no one wants. It's also a task that's slipping from "likely" to "inevitable" with each passing year, and gets bigger with each year that passes.
McHrozni
Caper
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Let's just say I came running back with my tail between my legs.
Eddie Dane
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OK, clear.
Odd, how we fantasise about being single, but forget how we used to pretty much look for a partner the whole time that we actually were single.
Scott Haley
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Sometimes single Chinese men will go to North Korea to find a wife. I just read a projection in the Huffington Post that there will be 24 million more young single men than women in China by 2020. There's only about 24 million people total in North Korea. Wouldn't it be great if Chinese guys came and married every single North Korean woman?
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That's racist. It ends with a "국"
That sounds like a very silly way of solving the problem, Scott. By the way, are such spouses permitted to migrate to China, or is the Chinese partner obliged to reside in N Korea, and if so, on what terms: citizen, resident alien, or what?
On who would care about North Korea ending -- I suggested South Korea.
But that's a very important day. As long as they get to that without worrying about the aftermath, it's too late. You only need the car buyer to feel the euphoria long enough to sign the purchase agreement.
But that's a very important day. As long as they get to that without worrying about the aftermath, it's too late. You only need the car buyer to feel the euphoria long enough to sign the purchase agreement.
Mycroft
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So the solution is gender reassignment surgery on a massive scale?