Greeks vote to reject incumbants, austerity

[timhau]

This is a fun time for a politics junkie like me, but this seems to be the second anti-austerity election in the past few days. Since the recession there has been a trend for more rightist, nationalist parties in Europe (True Finns and National Front are the first to come to mind on the minor party front). But the Labour and Socialist victories this week might to be a change of things.

Is it? I don't know what the National Front stands for in economics, but the economic policy of True Finns is somewhere way left of our Social Democrats. They have clear nationalist tendencies, but I don't see how they could be characterized as a 'rightist' party.

 

[BravesFan]

are greek nazis worse than illinois nazis?

Έλληνες Ναζί, μισώ αυτούς τους τύπους

 

[timhau]

Apparently so. They've only won a few seats, but Neo-Nazis? C'mon Greeks.

Some big talk from a small party:
Be afraid, exultant Greek neo-Nazis warn rivals

Greek Neo-Nazi leaders quoting a Roman emperor? That's about as silly as having slavic nationalists quoting Hitler.

Oh, wait...

 

[ddt]

I think there are some theories that rich greeks should actualy pay some taxes or something (an interesting concept and one supported by the european centeral bank which should give you some idea how clueless they are).

Tax increases would imply that they pay tax. In practice greece's defict is such that it is not really viable to deal with it through increasing revinue.

Do I sense a false dichotomy? Solving the state deficit isn't a question of either budget cuts or increasing government revenue (= increasing taxes). You can also do both. And having the rich pay increased taxes too seems only fair - or in the Greek case, having them pay taxes at all.

 

[a_unique_person]

Are Greek Nazis worse than Illinois Nazis?

I don't think Illinois Nazis ever got elected to Congress.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Detailed results are up on wikipedia.

Apparently they have a rule that the strongest party gets 50 (of 300!) extra seats - that means that the leading ND has 108 seats with 18,9% votes while the second party and big winner Syriza has only 52 seats with 16,8% of votes -, so even if all the winning smaller parties from far-left to far-right would form a coalition excluding the Nazis, they wouldn't technically have enough seats. And ND and PASOK lack two seats on their own to form a coalition. So either they manage to find an additional coalition partner in three days, or Greece has to vote again and the technocrats stay in power for the time being.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Noteworthy from a WSWS analysis:

In a further indication of public disgust with the political system, the abstention rate was a record-breaking high of nearly 40 percent, according to estimates from the interior ministry. This is much higher than in the three previous elections, where abstention rates ranged from 25 to 30 percent.

 

[WildCat]

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...crossroads-sees-obama-winning-tax-debate?lite

See how I did that? Googled "US tax debate" chose the first link and posted on this forum. Now that you have an example try it for yourself and see how you go - just remember opinion does not equal fact

Did you post the wrong article? Nothing in that about Greece or Greeks rejecting austerity because they didn't want tax increases.

 

[MG1962]

Did you post the wrong article? Nothing in that about Greece or Greeks rejecting austerity because they didn't want tax increases.

Playing the old "I am confused card" funny how that always comes out when you get caught out. My link is correct and in context with the post of yours I replied too.

 

[WildCat]

Playing the old "I am confused card" funny how that always comes out when you get caught out. My link is correct and in context with the post of yours I replied too.

Your link is completely irelevant to the topic at hand. We're talking about the Greeks rejection of austerity, remember? Read the OP again if you're confused.

So, who are the "other people" whose money the Greeks will tap in order to maintain their lifestyle now that they rejected austerity? I think they'll find foreigners unwilling to throw good money after bad.

 

[MG1962]

Your link is completely irelevant to the topic at hand. We're talking about the Greeks rejection of austerity, remember? Read the OP again if you're confused.

So, who are the "other people" whose money the Greeks will tap in order to maintain their lifestyle now that they rejected austerity? I think they'll find foreigners unwilling to throw good money after bad.

And we are still waiting for you to support your claims about the Greek people and why they rejected the measures

 

[Childlike Empress]

Playing the old "I am confused card" funny how that always comes out when you get caught out. My link is correct and in context with the post of yours I replied too.

Yup. Same old, same old. Take it elsewhere, kitten, it's boring.

 

[GreyArea]

I'm waiting for the breakdown of the vote to see what's what in Greece.

This infographic from the Guardian might have the maps and voting details you're looking for.

 

[Childlike Empress]

So either they manage to find an additional coalition partner in three days, or Greece has to vote again and the technocrats stay in power for the time being.

ND has already given up on the coalition-building so now Syriza has the theoretical chance for three days - only possibility is something like "everybody but ND and Nazis". Looks like new elections before mid June.

 

[Mycroft]

Did you post the wrong article? Nothing in that about Greece or Greeks rejecting austerity because they didn't want tax increases.

He means it to prove just "...many Americans <snip> don't want tax increases despite the level of debt the country currently carries" and not the complete "Maybe they have a similar mind set to many Americans and don't want tax increases despite the level of debt the country currently carries".

 

[stilicho]

Greek Vote Delivers Rejection Of Incumbents, Austerity



Interesting times.

The investment community will make their decisions for them if they don't want to work it out on their own. The worst-case scenario will be punishing bond yields combined with a plunging euro.

 

[WildCat]

And we are still waiting for you to support your claims about the Greek people and why they rejected the measures

We know why they rejected the measure - they think that somehow they can continue with the way things were. That's why they rejected austerity.

And as I pointed out, they will find that foreign money is unavailable to fund thier largesse.

 

[Laeke]

Is it? I don't know what the National Front stands for in economics

In short, and quoting from an article in March (so maybe some more precisions are missing):
- Getting out of the Euro, re-establishing national currency and a national bank.
- France would then borrow money at no interest to French Central Bank to reduce debt to 50% of current level by 2025.
- Lifting minimal wage, paid for through a 3% tax on all importations.
- Freezing oil prices of reducing the VAT tax on it to decrease it.
- A special subsidy for parents once they have two childs or more.

As expected their economic policy ties in with their political ideologies: Exiting UE to regain control at the national level on all matters, protectionism, pandering to the worker classes hugely dependent on their car, favoring natalism. Probably some Vichy France undertones here, I would expect ("work, family and fatherland").
And of course, even if unsaid, you can pretty much expect that their unemployement policy is to get "illegals" and "foreigners" "stealing jobs" out of the country. That was one of the famous posters of the party one or two decades back.

Beware though that in France, a centralized strong state is part of the tradition, even on the right (although the gaullist tradition has pretty much faded away as of today). I am saying this because too often, presence of the state at the economic level is equated with "leftism".

 

[GlennB]

We know why they rejected the measure - they think that somehow they can continue with the way things were. That's why they rejected austerity.

And as I pointed out, they will find that foreign money is unavailable to fund thier largesse.

My bolding.

Um, perhaps not? Perhaps they reject the way things are and would prefer to take their chances outside the Euro? Many have expressed that sentiment in this country.

Just a thought.

 

[timhau]

Um, perhaps not? Perhaps they reject the way things are and would prefer to take their chances outside the Euro?

At least in late december, over 75% of Greeks want to keep the Euro. Only 16% wanted the Drachma back.

Other polls have given similar results, this is just the first one I found when googling.