Feminism and Gender

mijopaalmc said:
Looks like you are ignoring the fact that women were barred from those places in men's lives where men placed themselves in the most danger and that women were the spoils of war for as long as men were fight wars.
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This is "What about the wommenz" - any expression of a men's issue like expendibility must be immediately countered with a counterpart woman's issue, which is clearly "worse" and therefore negates the earlier issue.
 
AvalonXQ said:
This is "What about the wommenz" - any expression of a men's issue like expendibility must be immediately countered with a counterpart woman's issue, which is clearly "worse" and therefore negates the earlier issue.
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Yawn...you are being deliberately ignorant that, if men are expendable, they are expendable, because the have barred women from taking those roles that you attribute to making men expendable.

And remind me: At what period in history were men qua men considered property to be traded like live stock?
 
bookitty said:
Feminisms, oh I like that. It makes more sense than "feminism is X" because, frankly, there's been a lot of weirdass stuff associated with feminism. (My personal loath - The hyper-perceptive, feminine-spirit, earth mother who has some supernatural intuition which is better than logic. Gah! No, a thousand times no!)
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Unfortunately, that seems to be the majority of self-identified feminists where I live; because females are more "spiritual", which is the "opposite" of the rational, scientific "male mind". Which is really ironic, considering that the "spiritual" female vs. "rational" male, was very much a product of Victorian-era prejudice, which also treated women as little more than children, intellectually, and believed them incapable of rationality.

Of course, it's hardly just feminists; there's a hell of a lot of it in the GLBT community as well, and even an undercurrent of anti-science, because science is part of the anti-GLBT mainstream. For example, anti-vax support is extemely high in the GLBT community, as is support for sCAM, and AIDS conspiracy theories run rampant.

It doesn't help that this place is a major breeding ground for woo, regardless.
 
AvalonXQ said:
This is "What about the wommenz" - any expression of a men's issue like expendibility must be immediately countered with a counterpart woman's issue, which is clearly "worse" and therefore negates the earlier issue.
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Because men created the situations in which you claim the were disposable by forbidding women to take on the roles in which you claim men are considered disposable. Your complaining that men are considered disposable because of these roles is really the fault of the men for mot allowing women to take on those roles.
 
elipse said:
That's from the sidelines, though, and in San Francisco/Bay Area. Do you see the same thing?
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As noted in an earlier post, it is changing noticibly; but more slowly here in the Pacific Northwest. These days, the most rabid transphobia I get from feminists tends to be online, but there are still controversies about transwomen in lesbian bars. Hell, it's not that long ago that "lipstick lesbians" -- that is, lesbians who took some pride in maintaining a well-groomed, feminine appearance; instead of looking like greasy, overweight rednecks -- were still openly derided as "not true lesbians" because they "perpetuated patriarchal stereotypes of beauty". Even wearing makeup was treated as collaboration with the enemy. Fortunately, that's changed dramatically in the last decade and a half; but transphobia still has a long way to go.

Part of the problem isn't even the imagined anti-feminism; but rather the inherent challenging of notions about gender identity. Most feminists, and many GLBs for that matter, are still very much steeped in a binary, exclusionary view of gender identity and sexual preference. They don't react well to anything that challenges their self-identity, even indirectly.

A very large chunk of the feminist umbrella, particularly on the fringe, is heavily invested in a rigid view of gender identity; and in particular the biological predestination view of gender identity.
 
TragicMonkey said:
It's in the dictionary right next to "humor".

If you purchase an educated quaman he could explain it to you.
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I read this page backwards, this post first, and read it as "aquaman."

For just a second there, I really (really, really, really) wanted to purchase my own educated aquaman. We could go ride dolphins while discussing the history of fluctuations in the use of metals for coinage and stuff!
 
bookitty said:
I read this page backwards, this post first, and read it as "aquaman."

For just a second there, I really (really, really, really) wanted to purchase my own educated aquaman. We could go ride dolphins while discussing the history of fluctuations in the use of metals for coinage and stuff!
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To become educated, aquamen must go to a school of fish.
 
luchog said:
Part of the problem isn't even the imagined anti-feminism; but rather the inherent challenging of notions about gender identity. Most feminists, and many GLBs for that matter, are still very much steeped in a binary, exclusionary view of gender identity and sexual preference. They don't react well to anything that challenges their self-identity, even indirectly.

A very large chunk of the feminist umbrella, particularly on the fringe, is heavily invested in a rigid view of gender identity; and in particular the biological predestination view of gender identity.
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Heh. I went to an LGBTQ event which had a questionnaire to fill out before attending. Under gender there were about 5 choices, plus the option to pick "other" and fill in your own blank.

Lemme see...they were
woman
man
transwoman
transman
genderqueer (which was subsectioned)
mix of binary genders
neither gender
and then the "other" category.

I think. I might be remembering slightly incorrectly.

Go Bay Area!
 
bookitty said:
I read this page backwards, this post first, and read it as "aquaman."

For just a second there, I really (really, really, really) wanted to purchase my own educated aquaman. We could go ride dolphins while discussing the history of fluctuations in the use of metals for coinage and stuff!
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Fun fact: Though DC, aquaman qua aquaman's views on gender were fairly fluid. :dolphin:
 
mijopaalmc said:
I wanted to purchase Aquaman...but for other reasons:

[qimg]http://www.hirescovers.net/gallery/albums/userpics/29733/normal_dcts_aquaman2007_v1_cover.jpg[/qimg]

Oh, yes, I just did...and in a thread where the objectification of men is discussed.
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I just want the educated one. I've got better than this at home (the preceding view may be biased.)
 
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