What's wrong with this definition of God: maker of heaven and earth and everything?

[Mashuna]

You are always looking for authority to depend on, use your own mind to think.

Yrreg, you've got confused again. You're the Christian, you're the one looking for authority to depend on.

About evidence, look up my exchange with Loss Mentor I mean Leader on what is evidence, what is the target of evidence, and how evidence operates to be a piece of proof for the existence of something the certainty of whose existence is in doubt.

Yrreg

It was an excellent exchange, and Loss Leader provided a clear and concise definition of evidence. Unfortunately, you completely failed to understand it, and instead insisted on using your own flawed and erroneous definitions. As you will no doubt continue to do.

 

[yrreg]

Think of an entity greater than creator of the universe.

Am I the only one who reads Yrreg's post in this fellow's voice?

Originally Posted by yrreg

Thanks, everyone for your reactions, but I am still waiting for Foster Zygote to return.

However, just the same I will say to everyone that this question of God or no God, it has engaged also atheists interminably to this day and everywhere in the internet, and more so in the internet because it is easy and quick to write in the internet and get oneself published.

Now, my opinion or conviction even though I must have already said this piece time and again in my writing in this forum, is that atheists are not genuinely thinking when they write about God in the Christian faith, because they insist on not getting the concept correctly.

Not genuinely thinking because to my observation they always delimit their thinking reach when it comes to God, so that in their delimited thinking they already set as off-limits any thinking that they will exercise with their mind as tabooed when it touches on the concept of God...
​

But back on OP

Originally Posted by yrreg

....So, you see, God as engineer and architect or plain builder, lastly creator of the universe, that is an old concept with the thinking men of antiquity.

Let us we two, you and I, Cassis, exchange thoughts about God as engineer of the universe....
​

I hate to interrrupt this intimate little encounter but I'm confused as to why Yrreg want to delimit God to a Judeo-Christian definition.

Think of an entity greater than God in concept in the Christian faith as creator of the universe.



Yrreg

 

[yrreg]

The explanation of Dawkins is not complete and ultimate, and he does not see it.

Originally Posted by yrreg

And in that connection to delve on what were the grounds for the ancient thinkers to come to such a formulation of God, namely, as creator of heaven and earth, or what I would say to be their totality of the universe.

​

The ancients came up with gods because they hadn't invented science yet. Once science was invented and people started to be able to make conclusions based on evidence, there was no longer any need to invoke a god as an explanatory principle.

Richard Dawkins once remarked that Darwin had made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist, by explaining via science what had previously only been explained via god. Every testable statement religion has made about the universe has, on scientific examination, found to be more or less inaccurate.

God is no longer required as an explanatory principle. Now we have science, which is much more reliable.

The explanation of Dawkins is not complete and ultimate, and he does not see it.

He is like the blind swordsman of Chinese kung-fu movies, but unlike the blind swordsman Dawkins does not himself woe to him see what he should be driving, thrusting his sword at, above and beyond his contention that science explains everything.

Ask Dawkins and also Hawking where the laws of nature or physics come from, and also in re evolution where does the original rise of life come from; but of course he Dawkins will insist that evolution is not about the rise of life from the very beginning but only the rise of new species from old species.

Well, still the totally mentally blind swordsman, completely unaware of what he should be directing his sword at.



Yrreg

 

[erwinl]

Think of an entity greater than God in concept in the Christian faith as creator of the universe.



Yrreg

Try as I might I cannot parse this sentence.
Maybe if you switch 'than God' and 'in concept' would that be more what you meant to say?

 

[yrreg]

I do enjoy this forum and the posters here, but are you interacting with me?

You know how you get all excited about having new toys, but after a while, you find yourself missing your old toys?

Glad you're back, Gerry.

I do enjoy this forum and the posters here, but are you interacting with me?

Can't seem to see you as one familiar to me in my history here.


What do you say, the concept of God in the Christian faith as creator of the universe came about from thinkers of antiquity who looked around and observed the universe and come to the conclusion that there is an entity creator and in charge of the whole cosmos; now atheists are so insistent that there is no entity in charge -- which is obviously an irrational attitude.

So, what do you think?

And I get this idea that atheists just miss totally and to themselves blindly what the concept is all about: God creator of the universe; consider that they keep harping on their not believing in any gods, goddesses, deities, divinities, when only one God is enough to keep them busy, why diffuse their attention on so many, except to hide behind them all which are of no worth whatever if they the multitude of gods etc. don't create the universe.



Yrreg

 

[pakeha]

...Okay, you don't accept some entity built the universe, then what is your ultimate explanation for the existence of the -- now this is not irrelevant, the nose in your face?...

It's not something I've ever thought about.
Could you share your thoughts on the subject?

Think of an entity greater than God in concept in the Christian faith as creator of the universe....

The entity that created that particular god, for example.

 

[slingblade]

I do enjoy this forum and the posters here, but are you interacting with me?

Can't seem to see you as one familiar to me in my history here.

You're getting forgetful. We've "interacted" many times.

So, what do you think?

God doesn't exist.

I can't really get much more clear or concise on that.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Think of an entity greater than God in concept in the Christian faith as creator of the universe.

Yrreg

God's mum?

 

[yrreg]

There is no panel of judges to decide on the merits of each poster.

Originally Posted by yrreg

You are always looking for authority to depend on, use your own mind to think.
​

Yrreg, you've got confused again. You're the Christian, you're the one looking for authority to depend on.

Originally Posted by yrreg

About evidence, look up my exchange with Loss Mentor I mean Leader on what is evidence, what is the target of evidence, and how evidence operates to be a piece of proof for the existence of something the certainty of whose existence is in doubt.

Yrreg
​

It was an excellent exchange, and Loss Leader provided a clear and concise definition of evidence. Unfortunately, you completely failed to understand it, and instead insisted on using your own flawed and erroneous definitions. As you will no doubt continue to do.

There is no panel of judges to decide on the merits of each poster.

And besides, you should not be talking because you are one poster here hostile to me, and I am a lone poster with a mind of my own in hostile territory, where everyone has a uniform mindset and congratulates each other mutually among themselves, like those guys who review each other's works glowingly which are subsidized by their own shallow patrons.


About authority for the existence of God creator of the universe, the Christian faith does not teach that you need a text revealed by God Himself to know His existence insofar as creator of the universe.

Man's reason can and does come to the certainty of God's existence; now about Jesus Christ and the particulars of His doctrines and disciplines, a lot of that are based on God's revelation.



Yrreg

 

[Mashuna]

There is no panel of judges to decide on the merits of each poster.

I've used my own reason to determine this Yregg, you should give it a try.

And besides, you should not be talking because you are one poster here hostile to me, and I am a lone poster with a mind of my own in hostile territory, where everyone has a uniform mindset and congratulates each other mutually among themselves, like those guys who review each other's works glowingly which are subsidized by their own shallow patrons.

I'm not hostile to you Yregg, you're light entertainment. I think much of your success in remaining amusing is that you periodically absent yourself, so your repeated failures in logic remain funny rather than tedious. Well done!

About authority for the existence of God creator of the universe, the Christian faith does not teach that you need a text revealed by God Himself to know His existence insofar as creator of the universe.

Man's reason can and does come to the certainty of God's existence; now about Jesus Christ and the particulars of His doctrines and disciplines, a lot of that are based on God's revelation.
Yrreg

See, still funny! For now, at least.

 

[Lowpro]

There is no panel of judges to decide on the merits of each poster.

And besides, you should not be talking because you are one poster here hostile to me, and I am a lone poster with a mind of my own in hostile territory, where everyone has a uniform mindset and congratulates each other mutually among themselves, like those guys who review each other's works glowingly which are subsidized by their own shallow patrons.


About authority for the existence of God creator of the universe, the Christian faith does not teach that you need a text revealed by God Himself to know His existence insofar as creator of the universe.

Man's reason can and does come to the certainty of God's existence; now about Jesus Christ and the particulars of His doctrines and disciplines, a lot of that are based on God's revelation.



Yrreg

Is it hostile to ask you to explain what you're saying? Is it hostile to remind you that you've only repeated yourself?

Also, the belief that because a painting needs a painter means that the universe needs a creator is irrational now. It doesn't require a creator and as such it makes God unnecessary.

Because God is unnecessary the belief that God created the heavens and the Earth isn't a tenable conclusion.

 

[yrreg]

Go, examine infinite regress and tell me what you find out if you are honest.

[ Enumeration provided by Yrreg]

Originally Posted by yrreg
...Okay, you don't accept some entity built the universe, then what is your ultimate explanation for the existence of the -- now this is not irrelevant, the nose in your face?...

(i) It's not something I've ever thought about.
Could you share your thoughts on the subject?

Originally Posted by yrreg
Think of an entity greater than God in concept in the Christian faith as creator of the universe....

(ii) The entity that created that particular god, for example.

On (i): the nose is certainly testimony to the creator God architect and engineer and operator who keeps your nose on your face otherwise it should fall off.

On (ii): that is the fallacy of escapism for a complete and ultimate explanation, the infinite regress.

It keeps you smug but it is a double sword so that you stab yourself with it.

Examine infinite regress and tell me what you find out.


The ancients have already thought of that gimmick and discarded it as fallacious and unworthy of serious thinkers.


Here is why it is not any complete and ultimate explanation for the nose if you ask the question which atheists are always setting forth and feeling so smug about, where is the complete and ultimate explanation with that question, who created God if God created everything.

Folks who go in that direction really don't know what it is to come to a complete and ultimate explanation of things.


Again, go examine and research and think about infinite regress and come tell me what you find out.



Yrreg

 

[slingblade]

I found out god doesn't exist.

 

[yrreg]

Let us examine the concept of God in the history of ideas.

You're getting forgetful. We've "interacted" many times.



God doesn't exist.

I can't really get much more clear or concise on that.

Let us examine the concept of God in the history of ideas.

There used to be a free online history of ideas in the internet, then some university it seems got the copyright to it, and now I can't use it easily, but it takes a lot of work to dig up the nuggets there.

I will look up that free online history of ideas again, and you do likewise; then we will exchange thoughts on what the ancients think about the concept of God as creator of the universe, what are their grounds for accepting and propounding this concept of God, the complete and ultimate explanation for the existence of the universe.



Yrreg

 

[yrreg]

Okay, so the universe is eternal and/or created itself, then it is God...

Is it hostile to ask you to explain what you're saying? Is it hostile to remind you that you've only repeated yourself?

Also, the belief that because a painting needs a painter means that the universe needs a creator is irrational now. It doesn't require a creator and as such it makes God unnecessary.

Because God is unnecessary the belief that God created the heavens and the Earth isn't a tenable conclusion.

Well, I don't think you are thinking properly, when you say that the universe needs no creator, unless you insist that the universe is eternal and/or created itself, in which case the universe is God, it created the parts of Itself which are changeable and have a beginning and an ending.

Now, you will say that I am admitting the existence of a pantheistic God, everything is God.

Well, everything is God for coming from God, but in that everything there is a God that is Himself not a part of anything but everything else comes forth from Him.

So, if you just attend to that God Who is the author of everything else that is not Himself, then you have got to God in His concept as the creator of the universe.



Honestly, in this new thread but merged with an old one by the powers that be here, I am into asking atheists with that question, The Concept of God with Atheists, namely, what do you have in substitute for God?

So, your answer is that the universe has always been around; I can take that but with my explanation above, and then I don't have to deal with scientists who tell us that the universe has a beginning.



Yrreg

 

[slingblade]

Let us examine the concept of God in the history of ideas.

There used to be a free online history of ideas in the internet, then some university it seems got the copyright to it, and now I can't use it easily, but it takes a lot of work to dig up the nuggets there.

I will look up that free online history of ideas again, and you do likewise; then we will exchange thoughts on what the ancients think about the concept of God as creator of the universe, what are their grounds for accepting and propounding this concept of God, the complete and ultimate explanation for the existence of the universe.



Yrreg

Why should I? God doesn't exist.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The Concept of God with Atheists, namely, what do you have in substitute for God?

*Very slowly and clearly* Nothing.

You're assuming the need you have to fill in the blanks in our knowledge with all purpose thought Spackle, personify it, and label it God is a need that we all share.

I've seen this dance before. You're going restate and redefine your question again and again until you get an atheist to describe some personal opinion of theirs that sorta sounds like something vaguely religious or spiritual if you take it out of context, squint at it, and tilt your head then make some sad attempt at declaring atheist just as religious as everyone else.

 

[Agatha]

Yrreg, your God does not exist. It's a story, made up by primitive peoples with a limited understanding of the universe and how it came to be.

We also have a limited understanding of the universe and how it came to be, albeit a far greater understanding than people thousands of years ago, but instead of making up a story, we're content to say "we don't know yet, we'll try to find out".

The source of your misunderstanding is revealed by your question above where you ask what atheists have in substitute for God. We've been telling you for years, we don't have anything as a substitute for God.

Until you understand this very basic and vital point, your monologues here (for your posts are not dialogue; you rarely discuss anything but merely restate your argument with increasing rudeness until you get carded) are pointless exercises.

 

[Ryokan]

As you're from the West...

He isn't. Yrreg is Filipino.

 

[Ryokan]

You are always looking for authority to depend on, use your own mind to think.

That's a really strange accusation, coming from a Catholic...