Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[EdG]

Tie goes to the police, because they are awesome and never lie, right ?

If I'm understanding you correctly, you believe the word of a person currently facing 25 years in prison over the sworn affadavit of a police office? I don't want to be mean-spirited, but when did you lose your objectivity on this case? Is there anything at all about Zimmerman that you are skeptical of? Anything?

 

[Rare Truth]

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hr/magistrate.htm

The Commonwealth of Virginia has an opening for a magistrate for Fairfax County. The magistrate is an independent judicial officer appointed by the Executive Secretary for the Supreme Court of Virginia.

How could someone possibly get the details wrong about thier fathers job ?

So is he a judge or not a judge?

Pick a lane and stick with it.

 

[crimresearch]

From Reuters, 4/25/12: "Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.

In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District."

Virginia State Code § 19.2-33. Office of magistrate. -- The office of magistrate shall be vested with all the authority, duties and obligations previously vested in the office of justice of the peace prior to January 1, 1974.

From Judgepedia.org: Virginia Magistrates provide an independent, unbiased review of complaints of criminal conduct brought to the office by law enforcement or the general public. Magistrate duties also include issuing various types of processes such as arrest warrants, summonses, bonds, search warrants, subpoenas, and certain civil warrants. Magistrates also conduct bail hearings in instances in which an individual is arrested on a warrant charging him or her with a criminal offense.

Yes. All of that has been posted before, by myself and others, when this myth was debunked the last several times.
His father was retired military not retired judiciary, and in his retirement had spent a few years in a minor community clerical position handing out papers as a JP/magistrate.

A Virginia magistrate is in no way shape or form a judge on the Supreme Court, or any other court.
They are the ones who sign routine paperwork at 3 AM when no real judge wants to be bothered, they are the ones who oversee low level hearings.
They are forbidden to try cases or administer punishments or award damages.
The salary range for magistrates $34K to $54K when they make full time with experience.
Virginia state judges average $160K.
In Virginia they have about as much 'pull' as a librarian, and in the state of Florida, Zimmerman's father would have had even less clout.

Which is why GZ's 'run of the mill' offense was processed through the system like thousands of others.

But that hasn't stopped the media from spreading the meme.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

So is he a judge or not a judge?

Pick a lane and stick with it.

Not a judge. What from the link I posted makes you think I believe he was a judge?

I was posting that for you to give you an understanding of why someone might put 'supreme court' somewhere in the title.

 

[EdG]

EdG, welcome to the forums!

Thanks!

 

[Rare Truth]

About 3 weeks ago I happened upon an application written by George Zimmerman himself in 2008 to join the
Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

Low and behold, what do we see:

“My father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years." - George Zimmerman.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/87267817

Seems George seemed to think he was a judge.

 

[EdG]

In Virginia they have about as much 'pull' as a librarian

I lived in Virginia for 14 years and have firsthand experience with their court system. How about you?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you believe the word of a person currently facing 25 years in prison over the sworn affadavit of a police office? I don't want to be mean-spirited, but when did you lose your objectivity on this case? Is there anything at all about Zimmerman that you are skeptical of? Anything?

If I believed him months ago when he wasn't facing 25 years in prison, would that make a difference to you ?

I have no opinion real opinion on the facts of the incident. I don't know any of the parties, and I wasn't there. Just pointing out it was the Officers word that he identified himself over GZ claim that he didn't. Isn't that being skeptical ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I lived in Virginia for 14 years and have firsthand experience with their court system. How about you?

Ooooh, argument from authority ! I can play too ! I live in fairfax county, VA (where Mr. Zimmerman was a magistrate) and have family members, friends and neighbors who are practicing attorneys. I live very close to the courthouse, and also have firsthand experience with the courts. What of it ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

About 3 weeks ago I happened upon an application written by George Zimmerman himself in 2008 to join the
Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

Low and behold, what do we see:

“My father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years." - George Zimmerman.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/87267817

Seems George seemed to think he was a judge.

Yup - or he thought that was the proper title. Or he lied about the title to make his father sound more impressive.
I don't think anyone here has accused GZ of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[EdG]

If I believed him months ago when he wasn't facing 25 years in prison, would that make a difference to you ?

He has been facing possible repercussions since he pulled the trigger. When there is an altercation between 2 persons and one ends up dead, I believe the live person bears intense scrutiny.

 

[EdG]

I live in fairfax county, VA (where Mr. Zimmerman was a magistrate)

Cool. I lived in Ashburn (Loudoun County) from 1990 thru 2004.

What of it, you ask? Here's what: There seems to be a pattern in this thread -- Downplay anything that casts doubt upon Zimmerman. His father worked as an officer of the court. Why should that fact be ignored, as though he worked as a counter clerk for the DMV?

 

[EdG]

Just pointing out it was the Officers word that he identified himself over GZ claim that he didn't. Isn't that being skeptical ?

No, it's not. Zimmerman pled guilty to the charge, a prerequisite for pre-trial diversion, which means that he acknowledged the officer's word was true. It was only later, while applying for police training, that his prior arrest became an impediment and he changed his story.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Cool. I lived in Ashburn (Loudoun County) from 1990 thru 2004.

What of it, you ask? Here's what: There seems to be a pattern in this thread -- Downplay anything that casts doubt upon Zimmerman. His father worked as an officer of the court. Why should that fact be pooh-poohed, as though he worked as a counter clerk for DMV? Unless downplaying the family history (George himself wanted to follow in his father's footsteps and become a judge) fits a certain narrative that must be maintained at all costs.

I think the only issue with his father is people seem to think that "judge" is some fancy important person that can get sentences shortened, charges dropped and the like. And I am not arguing a magistrate = dmv clerk, just that it's not a judge, and not that important of a position. If his father were a judge, I still wouldn't be aware of some special judge handshake he could give to the DA or whomever to get his sons charges lowered, but I would probably find that to be more plausible.

As for the rest of it ... I think GZ has shown himself to be not terribly bright. I don't believe him to be smart enough to have successfully lied his way through this by making up stories, or secretly breaking his nose later that night. I don't think dueling restraining orders with an ex-fiance is particularly compelling in understanding his character. A drunken college incident involving an undercover officer perhaps slightly more so.

BTW, I still don't see what all that has to do with understanding the VA or FFX courts systems.

 

[WildCat]

A defense attorney is not a police official. They are the furthest thing from that.

This is true, as officers of the court they are held to a much higher standard. I would be shocked if the medical records don't show Zimmerman had a broken nose.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

What of it, you ask? Here's what: There seems to be a pattern in this thread -- Downplay anything that casts doubt upon Zimmerman. His father worked as an officer of the court. Why should that fact be ignored, as though he worked as a counter clerk for the DMV?

Huh? Who has ignored it or tried to downplay it? Why does his father being a magistrate in another state cast doubt upon GZ?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

This is true, as officers of the court they are held to a much higher standard. I would be shocked if the medical records don't show Zimmerman had a broken nose.

And here I thought Omara was just making it up and hoping that in a year when this goes to court everyone would forget he said GZ had a broken nose. You mean he can't do that?

 

[WildCat]

I'm not big on conspiracies.
I'm big on logic.
I have not seen any hospital records, nor have you. At this point, there is no proof he ever went to the hospital the next day.

We do know he spent a portion of that next morning reenacting the event at the crime scene. That was supposedly videotaped. It will be interesting to see where the 'hospital visit' fit into that morning. If records transpire, and are not one of the the many inconsistencies noted by Zimmerman, then that will be that.

Exactly how does it help Zimmerman's case if they claim he had a broken nose and had medical records to prove it, and then can't produce said records?

That would be absolutely devastating to Zimmerman's case, don't you think? Or does your flawless logic somehow make that a reasonable action?

The post I responded to stated the police knew the night before. Pay attention.

I haven't seen any indication that is the case.

 

[WildCat]

About 3 weeks ago I happened upon an application written by George Zimmerman himself in 2008 to join the
Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy.

Low and behold, what do we see:

“My father is a retired Magistrate Judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years." - George Zimmerman.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/87267817

Seems George seemed to think he was a judge.

It just astounds me that anyone would think this is significant in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Freddy]

Thanks. Then I think your post was a bit unclear. A person can be mistaken in his or her fear but it must be a mistake a reasonable person would/could make.

I apologize for any lack of clarity, but I think the problem here is a difference in understanding regarding the scope of the reasonable person standard in self-defense claims. My view is that Zimmerman's self-defense claim is legally valid if and only if he reasonably believed, at the moment he fired his gun, that he would suffer serious bodily injury or death if he did not use his weapon. If that is correct, then Zimmerman making even an unreasonable mistake in finding Martin suspicious does not preclude a valid self defense claim under Florida law. I'll explain my interpretation of the statute in a moment.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I gather that you are considering whether Zimmerman's actions that night were, from start to finish, actions that a reasonable person might have taken. Zimmerman certainly fares worse under this analysis. I actually agree with you that, outside a court of law, this is the proper question to ask in judging whether Zimmerman is morally culpable.

But I don't think that is what the law considers. I base my opinion on the fact that the Florida Code specifically contemplates a situation where an initial aggressor can claim self-defense. Basically, if you start a fight, then the law imposes a duty to retreat before you can use deadly force. Also, in that situation you have to clearly indicate, in a way the person you initially attacked can hear, that you wish to stop fighting. Only if the person refuses to stop, and you reasonably fear death or serious bodily injury if he does not stop, and you cannot get away, can deadly force be used legally. Florida Code Section 776.041.

Since it is pretty much always unreasonable to be the initial aggressor, I conclude that the law requires reasonableness of the fear of death or serious injury at the moment one uses deadly force, but that one generally does not forfeit the right to self defense by acting unreasonably in the lead-up to the confrontation (although certain unreasonable actions can trigger a duty to retreat).

Again, that is my interpretation of the law. I think it is completely fair to base a moral judgment on the reasonableness of the totality of Zimmerman's actions that night.