Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

Is someone here arguing that Zimmerman planned to murder Martin from the outset? Because I must have missed that post.

Why else would GZ "set out with a gun" after TM?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?

No.

Unless one wants to be skeptical just for the sake of it, yes we know that his nose was broken. Omara indicated so in court and said he would provide the medical records to the investigator.

I would think an attorney stating in court 'GZ nose was broken' and 'I'll give you the medical records to show that' would count as evidence to allow one to conclude that GZ nose was broken. I guess not for a real skeptic^tm

 

[LTC8K6]

Your evidence for all this?

We actually doknow GZ had a short fuse he was sent on an anger management course.

imo, means "in my opinion".

Opinions are not facts.

 

[LTC8K6]

I would think an attorney stating in court 'GZ nose was broken' and 'I'll give you the medical records to show that' would count as evidence to allow one to conclude that GZ nose was broken. I guess not for a real skeptic^tm

Plus the video and stills of a swollen nose.

But hey, don't let any evidence get in the way of forming any opinions. <<<smiley

Oh wait, opinions aren't allowed here either, unless you can support them as if they were facts.

Well, just write down what you think and mail it to yourself. <<<smiley

 

[johnny karate]

A specific response to a specific post about TM and fighting.

No more, no less.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8227662&postcount=7713

Okay.

I'm just curious to know why that was deemed relevant, but the revelation of Zimmerman's thuggish tendencies via his MySpace page ("I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he's at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched") isn't.

 

[johnny karate]

Why else would GZ "set out with a gun" after TM?

If the argument here is that a person only carries a gun to commit murder, I'm not sure how that helps Zimmerman's case.

 

[johnny karate]

I would think an attorney stating in court 'GZ nose was broken' and 'I'll give you the medical records to show that' would count as evidence to allow one to conclude that GZ nose was broken. I guess not for a real skeptic^tm

The question was "Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?".

We haven't.

That doesn't mean his nose wasn't broken, nor does it mean there isn't evidence that his nose was broken. It simply means that we haven't found for sure if his nose was indeed broken.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I think it's funny that because GZ pushed an officer when he was drunk 7 years ago when he was 21, and was sentenced to an anger management course, that we "know he has anger management issues". I got caught speeding years ago and had to attend a driving course to avoid my insurance going up. I guess we "know I have reckless driving issues".

Not to mention of course, that none of us change from say, the age of 21 to 28.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The question was "Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?".

We haven't.

That doesn't mean his nose wasn't broken, nor does it mean there isn't evidence that his nose was broken. It simply means that we haven't found for sure if his nose was indeed broken.

What kind of slippery slope are we going down here ?

Have we found out for sure Trayvon is dead ?

 

[johnny karate]

What kind of slippery slope are we going down here ?

Have we found out for sure Trayvon is dead ?

There is no slippery slope. It was a simple answer to a simple question. It seemed to me that Checkmite was asking if the medical records or something to that effect had been made publicly available. And they haven't.

Pick another fight. This one is a nonstarter.

 

[LTC8K6]

Okay.

I'm just curious to know why that was deemed relevant, but the revelation of Zimmerman's thuggish tendencies via his MySpace page ("I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he's at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched") isn't.

I'm not even sure what all that means. It sounds like attempted rap.

Trayvon posted all kinds of "thuggish" stuff.

Who cares? I don't, unless it refutes a specific claim.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think it's funny that because GZ pushed an officer when he was drunk 7 years ago when he was 21, and was sentenced to an anger management course, that we "know he has anger management issues". I got caught speeding years ago and had to attend a driving course to avoid my insurance going up. I guess we "know I have reckless driving issues".

Not to mention of course, that none of us change from say, the age of 21 to 28.

It's not that it doesn't count or must be ignored - it's how much importance should we assign to it ?

I understand TM history won't be something brought up in court, but as discussed earlier - we know he was suspended from school 3 times this year - let's compare that to someone arrested once prior to this incident ... which of those people has a problem following the rules/laws ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

There is no slippery slope. It was a simple answer to a simple question. It seemed to me that Checkmite was asking if the medical records or something to that effect had been made publicly available. And they haven't.

Pick another fight. This one is a nonstarter.

That's assuming a lot about what for sure means.

So, you don't think his nose has been broken, for sure ? You have doubt about the fact his nose was broken ? Really ?

 

[johnny karate]

I think it's funny that because GZ pushed an officer when he was drunk 7 years ago when he was 21, and was sentenced to an anger management course, that we "know he has anger management issues". I got caught speeding years ago and had to attend a driving course to avoid my insurance going up. I guess we "know I have reckless driving issues".

Yes, it would be completely silly to look at your past history of reckless driving if you were involved in another reckless driving incident and we only had your word to tell us you weren't driving recklessly.

Not to mention of course, that none of us change from say, the age of 21 to 28.

And some people don't.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's not that it doesn't count or must be ignored - it's how much importance should we assign to it ?

I understand TM history won't be something brought up in court, but as discussed earlier - we know he was suspended from school 3 times this year - let's compare that to someone arrested once prior to this incident ... which of those people has a problem following the rules/laws ?

It sounds like GZ got out of that old life and turned his life around, but who knows?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

What kind of slippery slope are we going down here ?

The "let's see if we can exceed all previous idiocy" slope.

Have we found out for sure Trayvon is dead ?

Not for sure! We know that the state claims that he is dead. We know they claim to have examined a body that they purport was a dead body, and purport was TM. We know his parents haven't seen him since that night. But we don't know for sure.

 

[johnny karate]

It's not that it doesn't count or must be ignored - it's how much importance should we assign to it ?

I understand TM history won't be something brought up in court, but as discussed earlier - we know he was suspended from school 3 times this year - let's compare that to someone arrested once prior to this incident ... which of those people has a problem following the rules/laws ?

*raises hand*

The guy who was arrested for multiple third-degree felonies.

Also, the guy who was a self-styled "neighborhood watch captain" but wasn't too concerned with following the rules of the neighborhood watch.

Also, the guy who apparently will send out his "boys" to commit crimes on his behalf.

 

[curi0us]

They then determined that George Zimmerman's story matched the evidence and witnesses at the scene. Then a political lawyer went to the press producing 'evidence' including some 'investigating' he did himself which didn't stand scrutiny and caused a media firestorm.

That's this case in a nutshell. On the night of the shooting the police had:

• An eyewitness supporting Zimmerman's version of events where TM was the aggresor on top of Zimmerman.
• A recording from a 911 call with audible yells for help and screaming of pain which the eyewitness said was Zimmerman.
• Zimmerman's own account, given immediately without a lawyer, that he had been screaming for help and that TM was the aggressor.
• GZ's injuries supporting his version of events.

The police then did a voice ID check with TM's father and he confirmed what the eyewitness and GZ had been saying about the screams not being TM.

Anyone who listens to the 911 call can hear not just screams for help but of person who was clearly desperate and injured. Here is an IMO misguided but also very sincere account of what those screams signify from Rodney King:

"It's a death scream that I know very well and I have no doubt in my mind that it came from Trayvon Martin," he said.

Snip

"The horrifying sound of a young black male screaming for his life on a 911 call reminded me of my horrifying scream on a videotape 20 years ago," King said. "At that time, I thought I was going to die. Very, very gratefully, I survived. Unfortunately, Trayvon Martin did not."
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-12/...-tragedy-los-angeles-police-officers?_s=PM:US

If the screams are not TM (which is what all the best evidence shows) then this case has always been totally **********.

 

[johnny karate]

That's assuming a lot about what for sure means.

So, you don't think his nose has been broken, for sure ? You have doubt about the fact his nose was broken ? Really ?

Where did I say any of that? The amount of information you are inferring from the word "No" is astonishing.

I think Zimmerman's nose was broken.

Are you satisfied?

 

[johnny karate]

Who cares? I don't, unless it refutes a specific claim.

And yet the Youtube video you provided a link to didn't address any specific claim, it only served to somehow associate Martin with fighting.

How is that any more relevant than demonstrating Zimmerman's violent and/or criminal tendencies via his MySpace page?