Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[a_unique_person]

GZ wasn't chasing TM, and had no intent of coming anywhere near TM, imo.
.

If TM was running, them GZ had to be chasing.

 

[a_unique_person]

And if TM hid and waited for GZ to re-appear, instead of continuing home, and then confronted him, and then sucker punched him...

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

 

[Dan O.]

TM is the one who closed the distance, imo. Twice.

Explain how you get Trayvon closing the distance in the first encounter without first having George pass Trayvon and place himself in Trayvon's path.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Try reading the whole thing for a change... "...My understanding is that there were three websites which had PayPal accounts attached to them...".

Which is exactly what I have been saying... multiple websites, with contradictory media claims as to who did what, where.

And I said that I hadn't seen any definitive proof as to which one was GZ's, since this issue first came up weeks ago... also correct, since this statement wasn't released until the the 26th of April.

And I was simply letting you know that a reliable answer has been available for quite a while, so you can quite blaming the media. You're welcome.

So yeah, the fact that every now and then your Nancy Grace hysterical rumor-mongering]turns out to match an occasional random factoid, doesn't make skepticism an invalid approach.
Dream on.

I think you are confusing me with one of the voices in your head or something.

 

[LTC8K6]

Explain how you get Trayvon closing the distance in the first encounter without first having George pass Trayvon and place himself in Trayvon's path.

GZ is in his truck.

TM comes up to the window.

That's the first encounter, in GZ's version, which is all we've got.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

GZ didn't stop

That's an interesting claim at this stage, what makes you say that?

Since GZ told the operator he lost him, I think that means he stopped following TM, since he didn't know where he was ?

 

[LTC8K6]

If TM was running, them GZ had to be chasing.

I don't see why TM can't run away without GZ chasing him.

TM wanted to lose GZ and hide.

GZ dose not chase TM, imo, just tries to see where he went, but loses sight of TM.

 

[LTC8K6]

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

I actually think TM is intent on confronting GZ if GZ comes into view again.

TM's only reason for running is to hide and wait, imo.

TM is pissed off at GZ, for whatever reason, and wants to deal with him, imo.

As I said before, I think TM has a short temper that day, because of what was going on in his life.

 

[Dcdrac]

I actually think TM is intent on confronting GZ if GZ comes into view again.

TM's only reason for running is to hide and wait, imo.

TM is pissed off at GZ, for whatever reason, and wants to deal with him, imo.

As I said before, I think TM has a short temper that day, because of what was going on in his life.

Your evidence for all this?

We actually doknow GZ had a short fuse he was sent on an anger management course.

 

[Kaosium]

If TM was running, them GZ had to be chasing.

To keep him in sight, then he loses him. Since TM is almost home at that point it would seem assured that he must have doubled back to re-encounter GZ. Why do you suppose he did that?

 

[curi0us]

Your evidence for all this?

We actually doknow GZ had a short fuse he was sent on an anger management course.

TM's motives/emotions may always be a mystery but there is a lot of evidence about his physical actions.

There is evidence that TM reacted weirdly hostile to GZ when GZ was on the phone in the truck to the point of approaching GZ's vehicle. GZ's description of that should be viewed with skepticism but it shouldn't be disregarded either as there is a lot going on in the first minute of their interaction at a distance that we don't know with clarity. Regardless we know TM then ran.

While GZ clearly followed it's noteworthy that GZ didn't know exactly where TM had actually gone, that's pretty strong evidence that GZ wasn't even following that closely. It's easy to see on the street map how GZ's view of TM would have been obstructed if he was not horizontal with the cut through path when TM turned south but that also means GZ was a good distance behind TM.

The leaner and more athletic TM probably had a considerable speed advantage and a considerable head start. GZ never had a realistic chance of catching TM and there has never been any evidence (so far at least) that GZ actually intended to catch TM. My argument here is that common sense suggests GZ didn't even think he would be able to catch TM and GZ's hurried pursuit was just to try to keep TM in sight to let the police know where exactly TM had gone.

What happens to start the physical altercation isn't known for sure but the location that the fight/shooting ends at gives very strong support for GZ's version where he was walking back to his truck and TM confronted GZ. While anyone hearing GZ's police call would rightfully suspect GZ was the aggressor if one looks at the map the physical location makes it look like it had to be TM. (Maybe more will come out on this but I working with the best information available now.)

Then there is the really big issue of the screaming for help. There is incredibly strong evidence that the person screaming for help was GZ. Much of the hostility towards GZ is based upon a probably false belief that the person screaming was TM. OBVIOUSLY if the person screaming for help was TM then GZ is some super aggressive hot headed murderer IMO. BUT if the screams for help were GZ then some aggressive hotheadedness should fairly be applied to TM's actions.

 

[johnny karate]

And irrelevant...

Just like TM's web presence...

Interesting point of view coming from someone who posted this:

There's a little bit of evidence that TM participated in fights.

The video has been taken down, but I saw it when it was still up. Trayvon appears to be refereeing a fight, and fight videos were on his youtube channel.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/did-trayvon-martin-referee-school-fights

At exactly what point between the posting of Martin's Youtube videos and Zimmerman's MySpace page did their internet presence become "irrelevant"?

 

[Kaosium]

Your evidence for all this?

We actually doknow GZ had a short fuse he was sent on an anger management course.

We also know he had a gun and ended up in a fight where he got his nose broken and head bashed, how do you suppose that happened? He also had to tell his story immediately and that police decided it matched the evidence and witnesses at the scene even after the grilled GZ three times about it.

The law-enforcement source familiar with the case, who told The Daily Beast that he personally believes Zimmerman’s account, said Zimmerman has told three different law-enforcement agencies his version of the events: the Sanford Police Department, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and the U.S. Department of Justice. The source said Zimmerman has not talked about the case directly with the office of special prosecutor Angela Corey, who filed the murder charges against him on April 11. A spokeswoman for the special prosecutor’s office declined to comment on the case.

<...>

The law-enforcement source said Sanford police investigators interviewed Zimmerman three times about the shooting. The last time followed a walk-through of the shooting site. Afterward, three detectives grilled Zimmerman at police headquarters in their most thorough and hostile questioning, according to the source. They told Zimmerman they didn’t believe him, the source said, and tried to poke holes in his story.

They then determined that George Zimmerman's story matched the evidence and witnesses at the scene. Then a political lawyer went to the press producing 'evidence' including some 'investigating' he did himself which didn't stand scrutiny and caused a media firestorm.

 

[Checkmite]

Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?

 

[johnny karate]

Your evidence for all this?

There isn't any. Just read the posts that follow yours. Enough rank speculation assumed as fact to choke a horse.

We actually doknow GZ had a short fuse he was sent on an anger management course.

And that, of course, is to be ignored. Every time a new piece of the puzzle is revealed to demonstrate Zimmerman's violent tendencies it is to be swept under the rug with the others.

Any past behavior that can be directly linked to the likelihood that Zimmerman is a violent person is to be ignored, while any indirect evidence about Martin that can somehow be used to exonerate Zimmerman (See, Martin was a burglar so he was might have been casing houses on his way home and that is why Zimmerman thought he was suspicious) is to be exalted.

 

[johnny karate]

Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?

No.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Have we found out for sure yet that his nose was broken?

Unless one wants to be skeptical just for the sake of it, yes we know that his nose was broken. Omara indicated so in court and said he would provide the medical records to the investigator.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

OBVIOUSLY if the person screaming for help was TM then GZ is some super aggressive hot headed murderer IMO.

Who like most super aggressive hot headed murderers decided to call and have the police sent so they could arrive minutes after he committed his murder.

 

[johnny karate]

Who like most super aggressive hot headed murderers decided to call and have the police sent so they could arrive minutes after he committed his murder.

Is someone here arguing that Zimmerman planned to murder Martin from the outset? Because I must have missed that post.

 

[LTC8K6]

Interesting point of view coming from someone who posted this:



At exactly what point between the posting of Martin's Youtube videos and Zimmerman's MySpace page did their internet presence become "irrelevant"?

A specific response to a specific post about TM and fighting.

No more, no less.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8227662&postcount=7713