Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

Katie,

Let's forget the issue of what is and isn't going to get into court. Isn't not wanting to know about the history of both of these people sort of like wanting to bury our heads in the sand? I can't help but wonder if the reason some people don't think TM's school history should come out is they are afraid it might actually paint a picture of TM that fits with what GZ reports happened?

I do understand the attitude that we should "not blame the victim" but this is quite a bit different than a situation for instance where a woman is raped and someone tries to suggest that the number of sex partners she had is relevant (it's not). In this instance, GZ is asserting that he is the victim acting in self-defense and that TM was the attacker. So we actually have two different sides each claiming they are the victim and the other was the attacker.

That said, how relevant all of this past behavior is is impossible to say, and it may also bias us. But as someone who won't be sitting on the jury and doesn't have to worry about that, I'd like to know. Whether I have the legal right to know is another question, so who knows if the school records will ever come out.

Thing is, the main source for that 'history' is still going to be the media.

The same media that assured us that Zimmerman was white, that Trayvon made his own 911 call, that issued quotes that the parties deny ever making, that gave us multiple GZ web site addresses, but didn't have clue about the real one, that promoted all sorts of misleading photos and descriptions, and so on ad nauseum.

Even when they put up copies of actual court documents they get it wrong, as proven by the 'prosecutor's affidavit' garbage.

Until something is admitted as evidence, and argued by both sides at trial, it has to be taken with large amounts of skepticism... as was done by some posters in the case of the voice analysis experts.

 

[boooeee]

The same media that assured us that Zimmerman was white, that Trayvon made his own 911 call, that issued quotes that the parties deny ever making, that gave us multiple GZ web site addresses, but didn't have clue about the real one

Not to belabor the point, but are you still contending that therealgeorgezimmerman.com was not the "real" website?

 

[crimresearch]

Not to belabor the point, but are you still contending that therealgeorgezimmerman.com was not the "real" website?

I'm still contending that I'm skeptical.

There were multiple websites reported by the media, none of which were the current FB page. Which one was the 'real' one?
If there was proof provided that Zimmerman himself put up those 'white people' comments and graffiti pictures etc, I certainly missed it.

 

[boooeee]

I'm still contending that I'm skeptical.

There were multiple websites reported by the media, none of which were the current FB page. Which one was the 'real' one?
If there was proof provided that Zimmerman himself put up those 'white people' comments and graffiti pictures etc, I certainly missed it.

I wasn't referring to the current FB page. Zimmerman's lawyers have confirmed that therealgeorgezimmerman.com was legit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/28/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS125704746220120428

The "white people" comment refers to the Twitter account, I presume? As far as I could tell, the media never put much stock in that (Unabogie's confusion notwithstanding).

The graffiti picture was most definitely on therealgeorgezimmerman.com, the website that Zimmerman's current and former lawyers confirmed was created by Zimmerman (and which O'Mara requested be taken down).

 

[boooeee]

The same media that assured us that Zimmerman was white, that Trayvon made his own 911 call, that issued quotes that the parties deny ever making, that gave us multiple GZ web site addresses, but didn't have clue about the real one, that promoted all sorts of misleading photos and descriptions, and so on ad nauseum.

Claiming that the media had "no clue" about the real website doesn't sound like you're taking a "skeptical" position. It sounds like you're confidently declaring that therealgeorgezimmerman.com was not the "real" website. Despite statements from Zimmerman's lawyers to the contrary.

 

[lane99]

Paranoia will destroy ya

Another lost Zimmerman myspace page?

The poor author, apparently, has never met a "mexican" who didn't pull a knife on him.

However, on a positive note, he seems quite pleased with himself for being able to get: "2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Another lost Zimmerman myspace page?

The poor author, apparently, has never met a "mexican" who didn't pull a knife on him.

However, on a positive note, he seems quite pleased with himself for being able to get: "2 felonies dropped to 1 misdemeanor!!!!!!!!!!!"

Are you claiming that is GZ, or is someone else claiming that is GZ, or what ?

 

[RandFan]

I agree on O'Mara. I have been very impressed with pretty much everything he has done, from his public statements to his performance at the bond hearing. He appears to be a consummate professional.

Agreed. I was very discouraged by GZ's previous lawyers.

 

[RandFan]

Remember, though, that as a matter of law the self-defense claim does not depend on whether Zimmerman's suspicion was reasonable. Practically speaking, though, it may affect the jury's opinion of Zimmerman's character, and that might affect their opinion of his credibility. But I think that would only have a major influence if Zimmerman totally bombs on the witness stand and comes across as an overt racist or something.

Good post. Thanks. But I'm a bit confused. This is the first I've ever heard that reasonable person standard doesn't apply. Unless I miss your point.

Reasonable Person Standard as Applied to Self-Defense

In criminal cases the reasonable person standard may become an issue when the accused relies on affirmative defenses such as self-defense. For example, in most jurisdictions the case law and statutory law on self-defense generally require that the defendant’s belief in the necessity of using force to prevent harm to himself be a “reasonable one.” This is an objective requirement that requires consideration of how a “reasonable person” would have responded. Thus, even if the defendant’s belief is “reasonable to him,” it may not suffice to justify self-defense. On the other hand, even a mistaken belief may be reasonable because, as Justice Holmes observed, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.

 

[boooeee]

Are you claiming that is GZ, or is someone else claiming that is GZ, or what ?

It looks like it probably is Zimmerman. Here is a link discussing it: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-...sanford-florida-myspace-page-revealed-details.

All the details seem to line up with what is known about Zimmerman. The dates on the blog posts line up with the timing of his legal troubles (2005). The biographical details line up (age, birthplace, astrological sign). Under Companies, he lists "Zimmerman, Tamayo, and Associates".

Not sure if it would be possible to retcon an existing myspace page like this.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It looks like it probably is Zimmerman. Here is a link discussing it: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-...sanford-florida-myspace-page-revealed-details.

All the details seem to line up with what is known about Zimmerman. The dates on the blog posts line up with the timing of his legal troubles (2005). The biographical details line up (age, birthplace, astrological sign). Under Companies, he lists "Zimmerman, Tamayo, and Associates".

Not sure if it would be possible to retcon an existing myspace page like this.

Thanks for the link discussing, it does indeed appear to be him. You can't hide when the Internet decides to track you down !

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

It looks like it probably is Zimmerman. Here is a link discussing it: http://globalgrind.com/news/george-...sanford-florida-myspace-page-revealed-details.

All the details seem to line up with what is known about Zimmerman. The dates on the blog posts line up with the timing of his legal troubles (2005). The biographical details line up (age, birthplace, astrological sign). Under Companies, he lists "Zimmerman, Tamayo, and Associates".

Not sure if it would be possible to retcon an existing myspace page like this.

Reading that, if that's him, it's a shame he and TM didn't meet under other circumstances, having also read some of TM's Twitter postings, looks like in another life they could have been good buddies talking about boats and hoes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8T095mFdW8

 

[boooeee]

Thanks for the link discussing, it does indeed appear to be him. You can't hide when the Internet decides to track you down !

Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due to Facebook

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due to Facebook

I haven't even watched it yet and I already know I love it .

 

[crimresearch]

I wasn't referring to the current FB page. Zimmerman's lawyers have confirmed that therealgeorgezimmerman.com was legit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/28/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS125704746220120428

The "white people" comment refers to the Twitter account, I presume? As far as I could tell, the media never put much stock in that (Unabogie's confusion notwithstanding).

The graffiti picture was most definitely on therealgeorgezimmerman.com, the website that Zimmerman's current and former lawyers confirmed was created by Zimmerman (and which O'Mara requested be taken down).

I said 'white people' comments and put up graffitti pictures... how exactly do you put up pictures on Twitter?

And that article *proves* nothing because it never directly quotes the attorney as saying which website raised the money, it simply cuts and pastes the words
'the realgeorgezimmerman.com' into the article where the attorneys are talking about 'his website'. Without quotation marks, that could easily be the reporter's poorly researched assumption, not the attorney's actual words.

Given that therealgeorgezimmerman.com has been down for quite a while, I find the notion that all that money came in in a couple of days to a defunct site, less likely than one of the other websites that his previous attorneys named ('zimmermandefensefund', or something like that) being the real one.

Either way, the dependability of the media is tainted by all the things they've gotten wrong about this case (and many others in the past -- Richard Jewell ring a bell?).

 

[Freddy]

Good post. Thanks. But I'm a bit confused. This is the first I've ever heard that reasonable person standard doesn't apply. Unless I miss your point.

The reasonable person standard does apply, but its scope is limited to whether the person claiming self defense was reasonable to fear death or serious injury at the time he used deadly force. That's what the passage you quoted says: "the defendant’s belief in the necessity of using force to prevent harm to himself [must] be a reasonable one.”

 

[triforcharity]

I said 'white people' comments and put up graffitti pictures... how exactly do you put up pictures on Twitter?

Usually it will be uploaded to another page like Flicker or Photobucket, etc. and then a link is added. Twitter shortens the link.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I said 'white people' comments and put up graffitti pictures... how exactly do you put up pictures on Twitter?

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=twitter+image+services

And that article *proves* nothing because it never directly quotes the attorney as saying which website raised the money, it simply cuts and pastes the words
'the realgeorgezimmerman.com' into the article where the attorneys are talking about 'his website'. Without quotation marks, that could easily be the reporter's poorly researched assumption, not the attorney's actual words.

Given that therealgeorgezimmerman.com has been down for quite a while,

1 week

I find the notion that all that money came in in a couple of days to a defunct site, less likely than one of the other websites that his previous attorneys named ('zimmermandefensefund', or something like that) being the real one.

Is reality based on your credulity now ?

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/6-example-press-release

"and then there was the web site therealgeorgezimmerman.com , which George administered. Two accounts seem to have very little money in them, though I have not seen any records on those as they are not being administered by my client. Mr. Zimmerman’s former website and the PayPal attached to it raised approximately $200,000.00 over the period of time that it was up and running"

 

[RandFan]

The reasonable person standard does apply, but its scope is limited to whether the person claiming self defense was reasonable to fear death or serious injury at the time he used deadly force. That's what the passage you quoted says: "the defendant’s belief in the necessity of using force to prevent harm to himself [must] be a reasonable one.”

Thanks. Then I think your post was a bit unclear. A person can be mistaken in his or her fear but it must be a mistake a reasonable person would/could make.

 

[crimresearch]

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=twitter+image+services




1 week



Is reality based on your credulity now ?

http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/6-example-press-release

"and then there was the web site therealgeorgezimmerman.com , which George administered. Two accounts seem to have very little money in them, though I have not seen any records on those as they are not being administered by my client. Mr. Zimmerman’s former website and the PayPal attached to it raised approximately $200,000.00 over the period of time that it was up and running"

Try reading the whole thing for a change... "...My understanding is that there were three websites which had PayPal accounts attached to them...".

Which is exactly what I have been saying... multiple websites, with contradictory media claims as to who did what, where.

And I said that I hadn't seen any definitive proof as to which one was GZ's, since this issue first came up weeks ago... also correct, since this statement wasn't released until the the 26th of April.

So yeah, the fact that every now and then your Nancy Grace hysterical rumor-mongering turns out to match an occasional random factoid, doesn't make skepticism an invalid approach.
Dream on.