Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Dancing David]

So he knew the circumstances of his sons death ? He obviously did tell tracy martin ... so ... you would have to ask the detective why he told him, I guess.

A detective telling the facts of a witness' testimony during an investigation, just doesn't sound right. But I am sure it happens.

 

[triforcharity]

I agree and I assume the judge will do so if it happened.

How much money the defendant has available goes to whether or not they are a flight risk.

Also, AFAIK, in some areas if you have enough funds you aren't allowed to get off with just paying 10%.

Actually, the judge can order a cash bond only, but in rare cases. Most of the time, it's cash or surety bond.

I have a feeling that Zimmerman is going to be in some trouble.

 

[triforcharity]

I assume that if they do not ask for the immunity hearing, or if they have the immunity hearing and are denied, at that point a wrongful death lawsuit (Civil Trial) will be allowed sometime in the future.

Am I correct?

If his immunity hearing is held, and found to not have immunity, a wrongful death lawsuit could be filed, correct. However, if it's ruled in his favor, he is also immune from a civil lawsuit.

HOWEVER, a civil rights violation lawsuit IS able to be filed.

 

[Noztradamus]

Wow, you would think something like that would be enough for the detectives to question GZ story and cause to arrest him, instead of not arresting him and saying all the evidence aggress with GZ story

Well I'm not the one claimig that absurd story might be "the closest version of events we have to the truth."

And it depends when the detectives got the not-911 transcripts. If it was well after they cut Zimmerman loose it may have been "oops, Wolfinger screwed the pooch on this, oh well he's the boss, he decides and we support him" </Bill Shorten>

 

[curi0us]

Well I'm not the one claimig that absurd story might be "the closest version of events we have to the truth."

I'd be curious to hear what you think really happened.

GZ's version as usually reported doesn't include the window knock and while his account seems unlikely it is actually possible. From what I've seen the GF's version is totally unworkable with known facts. Can you piece the GF's version together in a way that seems reasonable? Or do you know of a website/blog/article that has done so?

 

[EdG]

There are a number of disturbing facts about George Zimmerman that will make any reasonable person highly skeptical of his words and deeds concerning the events of that night. Consider the following:

1. Zimmerman has a history of violence. Two of his ex-fiancees filed restraining orders for domestic violence. In addition, he was arrested for assaulting a police officer. Most recently, he was arrested for 2nd degree murder.

2. Zimmerman has a history of alcohol abuse. His assault on a police office arrest ended in pre-trial diversion including an alcohol education program.

3. Zimmerman has a history of dishonesty. For example,

a. He lied on his police academy application by claiming he didn't know the man he assaulted was a police officer. Oh, really? It's okay to attack someone unless you find out they're a cop?

b. He lied to Trayvon Martin when he said he wasn't following him when, in fact, he clearly was following Mr. Martin.

c. He lied to the court when he stated he had no assets with which to pay bond when the truth was that he had access to $200,000 in donations.

Considering all of the above and that Mr. Zimmerman is facing substantial jail time if convicted, one would be advised to take any statements he makes regarding the shooting with a very, very large grain of salt.

 

[Ziggurat]

a. He lied on his police academy application by claiming he didn't know the man he assaulted was a police officer. Oh, really? It's okay to attack someone unless you find out they're a cop?

Um... what? You're claiming that he lied, and you're backing up this claim by stating that if he's telling the truth, it would still be bad. Do you really not understand the logical disconnect here?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

There are a number of disturbing facts about George Zimmerman that will make any reasonable person highly skeptical of his words and deeds concerning the events of that night. Consider the following:

1. Zimmerman has a history of violence. Two of his ex-fiancees filed restraining orders for domestic violence. In addition, he was arrested for assaulting a police officer. Most recently, he was arrested for 2nd degree murder.

Two of his ex-fiancees? really ?

2. Zimmerman has a history of alcohol abuse. His assault on a police office arrest ended in pre-trial diversion including an alcohol education program.

There is some debate whether it was alcohol education or anger management. Either way, I don't think that counts as a history of alcohol abuse.

3. Zimmerman has a history of dishonesty. For example,

a. He lied on his police academy application by claiming he didn't know the man he assaulted was a police officer. Oh, really? It's okay to attack someone unless you find out they're a cop?

Where is the lie ?

b. He lied to Trayvon Martin when he said he wasn't following him when, in fact, he clearly was following Mr. Martin.

Thanks for clearing that up

c. He lied to the court when he stated he had no assets with which to pay bond when the truth was that he had access to $200,000 in donations.

That may turn out to be correct

Considering all of the above and that Mr. Zimmerman is facing substantial jail time if convicted, one would be advised to take any statements he makes regarding the shooting with a very, very large grain of salt.

Actually, I don't think much of what you pointed out is terribly relevant to his story.
More relevant are the witnesses, physical evidence, and police statements. The majority of which appear to favor GZ telling the truth at this time.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Well I'm not the one claimig that absurd story might be "the closest version of events we have to the truth."

No, but if you want to discount that claim, you could at least specifically state where the contradictions, etc. are to be found.

And it depends when the detectives got the not-911 transcripts. If it was well after they cut Zimmerman loose it may have been "oops, Wolfinger screwed the pooch on this, oh well he's the boss, he decides and we support him" </Bill Shorten>

Do you really find that plausible ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

George Zimmerman bond hearing: 5 new things we learned

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...in-Zimmerman-s-story-raised-police-suspicions

But during his turn on the stand, Gilbreath drew attention to Zimmerman's assertion to police that Trayvon was at one point running around Zimmerman's car. Gilbreath questioned why that should make Zimmerman fear for his life. “[Zimmerman] was so scared that he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin,” Gilbreath said skeptically.

Someone have a timestamp for the video or see this in the transcript ? (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html)

I'm curious - we've still not really seen more than snippets of the entire story GZ told police.

I'd like to know if the story Tracy Martin was told - that TM went first to talk to GZ while he was in his car, then GZ followed him, indeed originated with GZ, or was perhaps misunderstood in the re-telling.

I think 2 separate encounters, one at the car, then one on the sidewalk cast a bit of a different light on events.

ETA:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403
but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up. "Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'
"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.
"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'" The Martin family has been telling their story as part of a campaign to have Zimmerman arrested. He himself has kept quiet.

Huh? Zimmerman never made it back to the truck or claimed to as far as I know.

See above.

 

[bynmdsue]

Did the undercover cop make it clear that he was actually an undercover cop?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Did the undercover cop make it clear that he was actually an undercover cop?

So the officer claims:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.01.html

DE LA RIONDA: Ma'am, I provided the actual arrest document to the court and also to defense counsel. But I want to read to you a pertinent part. It states the officer to the affidavit, the arrest warrant -- I'm sorry, the actual arrest warrant states, "I identified myself as a state police officer and showed Zimmerman my badge and asked him to leave the area. He stated, 'I don't care who you are.' I again asked Zimmerman to leave. He stated the F-word and he said you. At that time I attempted to escort Zimmerman from the interview room and he shrugged away from me and pushed my arms away with his hands. After a short struggle he was placed in handcuffs and detained."

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It is being claimed that Z goes back to the truck (and M returns to the truck as well) after the 911 call....

It's all been explained to the him before. I can only imagine he is being willfully ignorant.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

There are a number of disturbing facts about George Zimmerman that will make any reasonable person highly skeptical of his words and deeds concerning the events of that night. Consider the following:

1. Zimmerman has a history of violence. Two of his ex-fiancees filed restraining orders for domestic violence. In addition, he was arrested for assaulting a police officer. Most recently, he was arrested for 2nd degree murder.

2. Zimmerman has a history of alcohol abuse. His assault on a police office arrest ended in pre-trial diversion including an alcohol education program.

3. Zimmerman has a history of dishonesty. For example,

a. He lied on his police academy application by claiming he didn't know the man he assaulted was a police officer. Oh, really? It's okay to attack someone unless you find out they're a cop?

b. He lied to Trayvon Martin when he said he wasn't following him when, in fact, he clearly was following Mr. Martin.

c. He lied to the court when he stated he had no assets with which to pay bond when the truth was that he had access to $200,000 in donations.

Considering all of the above and that Mr. Zimmerman is facing substantial jail time if convicted, one would be advised to take any statements he makes regarding the shooting with a very, very large grain of salt.

I've learned so much from this thread about how to judge people. Two can play at this game:

1. Trayvon Martin has a history of drug abuse. He was kicked out of school for marijuana abuse.

2. Trayvon Martin has a history of violence. It's reported he swung on a bus driver, he officiated bare knuckle fights and may have participated in them, and he attacked George Zimmerman. And that's just the violence we know about.

3. Trayvon Martin is an established liar. When he was caught with stolen jewelry and a screwdriver he lied and said he was holding it for a friend.

4. Trayvon Martin is a thief. He was caught with stolen jewelry and a screwdriver.

5. Trayvon Martin has a history of destroying property. He was caught painting graffiti on school property.

6. Trayvon Martin has a history of acting suspiciously. When he was caught at school it was because he was trying to hide and not be seen while not realizing he was viewable from a security camera.

(sarcasm)

 

[TheL8Elvis]

It has not been transcribed anywhere, because this is a portion in the CNN transcription where they broke away to commercial. It was described as "circling" his car.

I transcribed it myself.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he, Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, at one point claim to the police that he was scared because Mr. Martin started circling his car?
GILBREATH: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: According to Mr. Zimmerman he was so scared he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin? Correct?

GILBREATH: He went after him,Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true, based on the evidence, Mr. Zimmerman had two flashlights with him?
GILBREATH: Yes.
<snip /tactical flashlight description>

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of 'ran after' - Mr. Martin, is that correct?

GILBREATH: No.
From the video testimony here: George Zimmerman bond hearing :: WRAL.com[/I] - Starts at about 1:46:39 (this portion)​

Has anyone besides Mr. Martin reported that GZ's version included that TM knocked on GZ's truck window?

That, along with Tracy Martin version, makes me believe there were two encounters at this point.​

 

[marplots]

I've learned so much from this thread about how to judge people. Two can play at this game:

1. Trayvon Martin has a history of drug abuse. He was kicked out of school for marijuana abuse.

2. Trayvon Martin has a history of violence. It's reported he swung on a bus driver, he officiated bare knuckle fights and may have participated in them, and he attacked George Zimmerman. And that's just the violence we know about.

3. Trayvon Martin is an established liar. When he was caught with stolen jewelry and a screwdriver he lied and said he was holding it for a friend.

4. Trayvon Martin is a thief. He was caught with stolen jewelry and a screwdriver.

5. Trayvon Martin has a history of destroying property. He was caught painting graffiti on school property.

6. Trayvon Martin has a history of acting suspiciously. When he was caught at school it was because he was trying to hide and not be seen while not realizing he was viewable from a security camera.

(sarcasm)

You forgot the kicker though: Anything Trayvon Martin says should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

You forgot the kicker though: Anything Trayvon Martin says should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Good point!!!

 

[curi0us]

That, along with Tracy Martin version, makes me believe there were two encounters at this point.

Maybe, but it is really hard fit two encounters into the timeline we have.

I'm thinking the circling thing happened when GZ was on the phone with the police when he says "now he is coming towards me" followed by "something is wrong with him. yup, he is coming to check me out" and then "how long till you get an officer over here?"

 

[nadsat]

from George Zimmerman Legal Case's facebook:

We understand there are some questions and concerns regarding the discovery deadline suggested by our Criminal Rules. While the rules do state that discovery is due 15 days from demand, that is a right which George Zimmerman enjoys, and it is up to his defense team to decide how to handle these matters. We are concerned about the release of witness information to the general public, solely due to safety concerns. There has been a lot of animosity and emotions caused by incomplete and premature disclosure of information. Becasue those emotions still run so high, we want to do everything we can to protect the sanctity of the process and the safety of the witnesses. No good purpose will be served by a media frenzy directed at witnesses. While the media and the public have an absolute right to know about this case, that right has to be balanced with the rights of these witnesses. They are doing their civic duty in testifying in this case. We doubt any of them enjoy the scrutiny they are under due to the coincidence of their involvement in such a high profile matter. We are delaying demanding the discovery until we can file motions to protect these witnesses. Once that is in place, discovery will flow to us, then the media and the public has access to it, under our rules. Ms. Corey in not violating any rule or statute, as it is our decision, not hers, to wait until proper motions regarding the witnesses have been drafted and filed. tks for your understanding.

 

[WildCat]

See above.

But wouldn't that be before Zimmerman left the vehicle?