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Does Islam belong in Germany?

epepke said:
Germany does have a genocidal, xenophobic, and nationally/culturally superior nature. *snip* I say this as someone with 3/4 German ancestry.
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Funny thing - because living in that boring country called Germany, I virtually know no one having genocidal thoughts or a superior worldview. Although, like in any other country, there is a rather lousy minority having those views.

Also, I have no idea what nationalism is. I see myself as European, like many Germans Europeans do, by the way.

That topic rather seems to be an issue in Swiss and the Netherlands, from what I read in the local news.
 
Oliver said:
Funny thing - because living in that boring country called Germany, I virtually know no one having genocidal thoughts or a superior worldview. Although, like in any other country, there is a rather lousy minority having those views.

Also, I have no idea what nationalism is. I see myself as European, like many Germans Europeans do, by the way.

That topic rather seems to be an issue in Swiss and the Netherlands, from what I read in the local news.
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wtf?
 
Dcdrac said:
thats right
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Actually, from the sense I got in more than thirty years living in Germany, Religion as a whole pretty much is obsolete over here. Although Religion is trying hard to ignore that.
 
ddt said:
:confused:

You compared Volker Kauder, head of the CDU/CSU's parliamentary party, with Heinrich Himmler, Reichsführer SS. Himmler is the only one in the pictures in your OP wearing a uniform.
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I was contrasting him, not equating him.
 
Cleon said:
Islam belongs in Germany as much as Judaism, Christianity, and atheism do.
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You are not authorized to make that determination. The Germans as a whole decide which religious belief systems are part of German identity, tradition, and culture. I am uncertain exactly how they go about it. Apparently there is a debate in progress now.

It has always been German to define what is and is not German. Outsiders' opinions on the matter are not solicited.

No reason to get excited. It is unlikely the Germans are thinking along genocidal lines. Merkel did say multiculturalism has failed, but that is just a statement of fact, not a general call to fire up the gas chambers.
 
Toontown said:
You are not authorized to make that determination. The Germans as a whole decide which religious belief systems are part of German identity, tradition, and culture. I am uncertain exactly how they go about it. Apparently there is a debate in progress now.

It has always been German to define what is and is not German. Outsiders' opinions on the matter are not solicited.

No reason to get excited. It is unlikely the Germans are thinking along genocidal lines. Merkel did say multiculturalism has failed, but that is just a statement of fact, not a general call to fire up the gas chambers.
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no, Cleon is right according to the basic laws in germany. His statement was simply a statement of fact.
 
Toontown said:
You are not authorized to make that determination. The Germans as a whole decide which religious belief systems are part of German identity, tradition, and culture. I am uncertain exactly how they go about it. Apparently there is a debate in progress now.

It has always been German to define what is and is not German. Outsiders' opinions on the matter are not solicited.

No reason to get excited. It is unlikely the Germans are thinking along genocidal lines. Merkel did say multiculturalism has failed, but that is just a statement of fact, not a general call to fire up the gas chambers.
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Well, according to Wikipedia, the German constitution says:

Since 1949 the German constitution guarantees freedom of faith and religion. It also states that no one may be discriminated against due to their faith or religious opinions. A state church does not exist in Germany.
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angrysoba said:
Well, according to Wikipedia, the German constitution says:

Since 1949 the German constitution guarantees freedom of faith and religion. It also states that no one may be discriminated against due to their faith or religious opinions. A state church does not exist in Germany.
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Then by the constitution, Germans may not be discriminated against due to their opinions about any religion. Said opinions need not be positive, and need not be of the persuasion that any religion is a facet of German identity, tradition, or culture.

Thus it is legal and acceptable for a German to express dismay that efforts are under way to expand the following of a benighted, false system of beliefs.
 
Toontown said:
Then by the constitution, Germans may not be discriminated against due to their opinions about any religion. Said opinions need not be positive, and need not be of the persuasion that any religion is a facet of German identity, tradition, or culture.

Thus it is legal and acceptable for a German to express dismay that efforts are under way to expand the following of a benighted, false system of beliefs.
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Quite right.

But you seem to be mixing facts and values.

It is either true or not that Muslims are constitutionally permitted to belong in Germany. In this case, it is true.

It is a matter of opinion whether or not you think it should be acceptable.

I won't ask you what you think or you'll only start bellyaching about being persecuted for committing "thought crime". Poor diddums.
 
No matter what the constitution says, the separation of church and state is not perfect in Germany. The ReichskonkordatWP is still in place, which gives Christianity in general and the Catholic church in particular advances like meddling in academia to an extent and, first of all, collection of church taxes by the state.
 
angrysoba said:
Quite right.

But you seem to be mixing facts and values.

It is either true or not that Muslims are constitutionally permitted to belong in Germany. In this case, it is true.

It is a matter of opinion whether or not you think it should be acceptable.

I won't ask you what you think or you'll only start bellyaching about being persecuted for committing "thought crime". Poor diddums.
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It is good that you have belatedly decided to refrain from inquisitorial interrogation for the obvious purpose of unearthing suspected thought crimes.
 
Toontown said:
It is good that you have belatedly decided to refrain from inquisitorial interrogation for the obvious purpose of unearthing suspected thought crimes.
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I don't care about "unearthing thought crimes". I do care about the clarity of the views of the people I am talking about but the only thing you have made clear is that you will kick up a petulant stink if asked to clarify yours (while posing as Winston Smith) so I won't bother.

Have a nice day! :p
 
angrysoba said:
I don't care about "unearthing thought crimes". I do care about the clarity of the views of the people I am talking about but the only thing you have made clear is that you will kick up a petulant stink if asked to clarify yours (while posing as Winston Smith) so I won't bother.

Have a nice day! :p
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Clearly a distinction without a difference. You are obviously annoyed that I resist your interrogations aimed at determining whether I am guilty of unclear thinking.
 
Toontown said:
Clearly a distinction without a difference. You are obviously annoyed that I resist your interrogations aimed at determining whether I am guilty of unclear thinking.
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Eh? It's interesting that you think it is a "distinction without a difference" between a view and a thought crime.

Anyway, I'll not bother you again because while your dissident routine is comical your self-pity is nauseating.
 
angrysoba said:
Eh? It's interesting that you think it is a "distinction without a difference" between a view and a thought crime.

Anyway, I'll not bother you again because while your dissident routine is comical your self-pity is nauseating.
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I see. it is self-pity if I refuse to submit to the demanded confession of impure thoughts.

Your assessment of my mental state is as inept as your interrogation technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=uVqBzP0xdKk
 
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