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WTC7 and the girder walk-off between column 79 and 44

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Tony Szamboti said:
If you don't think so, then please explain the freefall descent for eight stories.
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The floor slabs and trusses, deprived of support in the center of the building, pulled the exterior columns inward, as was seen in the towers. They were unable to support the weight, and snapped in such rapid succession as to be almost instantaneous. No big mystery.

There is, however, no evidence of any other cause that any rational person can think of.
 
Clayton Moore said:
It's my assertion that the presence of a fire that couldn't be put out for over TWO months after 9/11 and the presence of molten steel underneath the rubble for over TWO months after 9/11 is proof perfect that the destruction was preplanned.
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Why would the evil doers want molten steel under the rubble?
 
tsig said:
Why would the evil doers want molten steel under the rubble?
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10 years of failure, and the molten steel fantasy is the best they have.

Poor Tony, has proved WTC 7 can't fall due to fire, but lost his work. Sad day for paranoid conspiracy theorists, they proved it but failed to show their work. F!

The realcddeal is alive in the fantasy world of 911 truth; they new JFK nuts-R-Us movement of perpetual nonsense.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
Okay, I bit and watched your video.

However, it isn't the responsibility of individual citizens to perform an investigation which affects the public. The government is responsible to perform a fully resourced investigation and provide a sound explanation. The first investigation has been shown to be incorrect due to its explanations having impossibilities contained within them. The government needs to do it over. There is no need for yours or my donations there as we already contribute via taxes.
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Actually, no, there is no reason for any department to re-investigate. Many investigations took place the minute the first plane hit the first tower.

However, it is the duty of every American citizen to take action if they feel they have been wronged by those in public service. As well, if you feel that other organizations such as NIST, Fema, and the NYPD (to name a few) were completely incompetent in their research, I would think it's only fitting to take it upon yourself to do your own proper investigation.

And I will support you.
 
tmd2_1 said:
Yes "every one" knew it was coming down. Yet NIST was stumped for years. Even what they do have has been proven impossible by Tony and others.
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NIST was not stumped, you are the stumped one, from passports, physics, AQ, and more. The only thing Tony and 911 truth have proof of; they are all paranoid conspiracy theorists with no evidence.
 
dc1971 said:
...However, it is the duty of every American citizen to take action if they feel they have been wronged by those in public service. As well, if you feel that other organizations such as NIST, Fema, and the NYPD (to name a few) were completely incompetent in their research, I would think it's only fitting to take it upon yourself to do your own proper investigation.

And I will support you.
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Many, if not most, of us non-US people would support a legitimate call for investigation. But it would have to be legitimate. Legitimate as to process and legitimate in terms of a substantial argument as to what is to be investigated and why.

However there are two distinct types of issues which are subject of truth movement claims.
1) concerns in the socio-political domain, especially those related to MIHOP, LIHOP and LIHOOI; contrasted with
2) Claims in the technical domain including the "big three" of CD at WTC; not that 'plane at Pentagon and shoot-down at Shanksville - and all the related subordinate issues - thermXte etc.

Dealing only with CD at WTC the evidence is clear viz:
a) No supportable evidence of CD;
b) Much evidence against CD; AND
c) Despite 10 years plus no-one has put forward a supportable claim for CD.
(The situation at Pentagon and Shanksville is analogous - no case made and strong cases made against. Remembering for all three the logical problem of "proving a negative" which is why I made the statement in that form.)

HOWEVER given that there were multiple agencies of Government involved together with territorial rivalries and arse protection it is almost inconceivable that there would be no issues of concern in the socio-political arena.

Which then raises the two key issues of strategy for those in the truth movement who are genuinely concerned:
A) If they have genuine concerns about "...they feel they have been wronged by those in public service..." are those concerns sufficient to warrant more investigation OR have they been adequately addressed. AND
B) If they have genuine political concerns why do they tie those concerns to the lost causes of false technical claims? Surely that is a guaranteed way to lose any political leverage?

The trickery of half truths, partial truths taken out of context and outright untruths displayed in this thread would not last the preliminary examination by those whose authority is needed to endorse yet another investigation.

And the proportion of general public voters in the electorate who are interested or who can be fooled by false technical claims from truthers must be continuing to reduce.
 
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Tony Szamboti said:
In and of itself, freefall for eight stories over the full length and width of the building proves what it was. It is a joke to try and rationalize that one away.
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So, after all the science your theory comes down to this - "It's so obvious!" ?

Get all sciencey again please, and explain how the perps were able to guarantee WTC7 would be hit by WTC1 debris sufficient to start fires. Without them as a cover-story all we'd have would be WTC7 rigged for demolition and needing to be un-rigged pdq before anyone noticed :rolleyes:

From all the videos and photos I've seen, the ejection from WTC1 that did hit WTC7 was not in the slightest bit predictable.
 
LSSBB said:
By femr2's analysis, the exterior wall descent passed through g, was above g, then came back down through it. You know, like something inside that was already falling gave it a yank downward.
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If the exterior wall had no resistance then the whip action from an already falling interior would be able to cause it to accelerate above g initially.

However, if the columns in the exterior were not severed and simply buckling, it would be impossible for the exterior to reach freefall this way, as there is a minimum resistance and it doesn't matter if there is a whip action from something connected and already falling or not.

There is a reason the NIST model does not fall faster than 0.6g.
 
GlennB said:
So, after all the science your theory comes down to this - "It's so obvious!" ?

Get all sciencey again please, and explain how the perps were able to guarantee WTC7 would be hit by WTC1 debris sufficient to start fires. Without them as a cover-story all we'd have would be WTC7 rigged for demolition and needing to be un-rigged pdq before anyone noticed :rolleyes:

From all the videos and photos I've seen, the ejection from WTC1 that did hit WTC7 was not in the slightest bit predictable.
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I know you are impatient for a complete explanation, but this thread is about how the NIST explanation for WTC 7's collapse initiation is impossible and the fact that it needs to be revisited. Please stay there.

If you want to discuss less clear issues with me you can contact me personally.
 
tsig said:
Why would the evil doers want molten steel under the rubble?
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So you admit that

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
It's my assertion that the presence of a fire that couldn't be put out for over TWO months after 9/11 and the presence of molten steel underneath the rubble for over TWO months after 9/11 is proof perfect that the destruction was preplanned.
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is a true statement?
 
Tony Szamboti said:
If the exterior wall had no resistance then the whip action from an already falling interior would be able to cause it to accelerate above g initially.
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And that's what happened.

Tony Szamboti said:
However, if the columns in the exterior were not severed and simply buckling, it would be impossible for the exterior to reach freefall this way, as there is a minimum resistance and it doesn't matter if there is a whip action from something connected and already falling or not.
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If the downwards pushing force overwhelms the columns, they give way much faster.

Tony Szamboti said:
There is a reason the NIST model does not fall faster than 0.6g.
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I know, and that reason is that their model was not perfect.
 
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