WTC7 and the girder walk-off between column 79 and 44

[Justin39640]

What we do know is that the building collapses were not due to natural causes. Beyond that I can tell you what I believe and have to qualify it as speculation, as only an investigation would verify it.

There is a lot of talk about paper intensive Enron files and the like being in the SEC offices on the 12th and 13th floor. In other words, it was a garbage can for incriminating case files of elite people that could be taken down with the excuse that damage from the twin towers caused it.

I believe the charges were set when the work was done for Rudy Giuliani's bunker, and that is why he was insistent on the bunker being in WTC 7 over the objections of many. The project cost was 13 million dollars and had access to the entire building for emergency power and life systems integration.

Rudy was a key man here, because he also had control over the cleanup and it seems he cleaned it all up, because NIST got none of the steel from WTC 7 for their investigation and people like Jonathan Barnett weren't given access to it. We know this is true because it is stated in the NIST report and Barnett is on tape saying they were unable to do the type of investigation they normally do with the steel from WTC 7. That is simply shocking given that WTC 7 would have been the first high rise building to completely collapse due to fire.

It isn't hard to see that 911 and the ensuing wars had something to do with oil, and guess who Rudy works for now. He was made a full partner in the Bracewell and Patterson law firm in Houston and the majority of their clients are oil and gas companies. The firm is now called Bracewell and Giuliani.

This is not to say that every person in the oil industry was involved in 911. However, Rudy Giuliani would be on the short list of those who need to be investigated and deposed in any re-investigation of what occurred.

I am not going to argue the above. I only posted it because you asked.

What's up, Stretch!

 

[NoahFence]

Let's just say there are more than enough issues to warrant a re-investigation.

Where's your evidence, kiddo?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Yup. Rudy was such a "key man", dreaming of a life of oil money from these attacks, that he went directly down to GZ and stood 2 blocks away as Tower 1 collapsed!

Could someone help me out with a face palm here?

[I could start going into no wiring found for explosives or, if this is your argument, wireless devices not going off in the 2 years between "the charges were set when the work was done for Rudy Giuliani's bunker," and the attacks; oh, and how Enron executives were tried and convicted, but what would be the point. Your baseless accusation of Giuliani is enough debunking material].

I can't, I am too busy with my own face palm over your incredulousness that wireless detonators would have to go off. Have you ever heard of EMI/EMC protection? Rudy was inside a basement two blocks away while WTC 1 was collapsing. He was never in danger. The collapse of WTC 7 occurred before Enron spun out of control and a couple of key executives could not be saved. How many others that were probably much higher up on the ladder politically had to be involved in that whole scheme?

I am not going to continue arguing this. I already said I only posted it because GlennB asked for our thoughts on what we believe actually occurred and I identified it as speculation based on the overall occurrences before, during, and after 911.

 

[NoahFence]

With the type of nitpicking you are doing it would seem you are confused because you want to be. Have a ball.

Whining about a single column in a 47 story building isn't nitpicking though. Got it. Add hypocrite to the list.

Dishonest
Ignorant
Hypocrite

 

[NoahFence]

What's up, Stretch!

Destroy the twin towers, plow a plane into the Pentagon, and crash one in Shanksville no doubt destined for the Capitol Building because of paperwork in WTC 7.

Unreal.

Yes truthers, you also have to account for all for scenes. Sorry.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Whining about a single column in a 47 story building isn't nitpicking though. Got it. Add hypocrite to the list.

Dishonest
Ignorant
Hypocrite

I don't think most people would call it nitpicking to scrutinize the analysis of how that one column supposedly failed when the complete collapse of the building is blamed on the failure of that one column.

On the other hand, your logic is hard to understand.

 

[tsig]

What we do know is that the building collapses were not due to natural causes. Beyond that I can tell you what I believe and have to qualify it as speculation, as only an investigation would verify it.

There is a lot of talk about paper intensive Enron files and the like being in the SEC offices on the 12th and 13th floor. In other words, it was a garbage can for incriminating case files of elite people that could be taken down with the excuse that damage from the twin towers caused it.

I believe the charges were set when the work was done for Rudy Giuliani's bunker, and that is why he was insistent on the bunker being in WTC 7 over the objections of many. The project cost was 13 million dollars and had access to the entire building for emergency power and life systems integration.

Rudy was a key man here, because he also had control over the cleanup and it seems he cleaned it all up, because NIST got none of the steel from WTC 7 for their investigation and people like Jonathan Barnett weren't given access to it. We know this is true because it is stated in the NIST report and Barnett is on tape saying they were unable to do the type of investigation they normally do with the steel from WTC 7. That is simply shocking given that WTC 7 would have been the first high rise building to completely collapse due to fire.

It isn't hard to see that 911 and the ensuing wars had something to do with oil, and guess who Rudy works for now. He was made a full partner in the Bracewell and Patterson law firm in Houston and the majority of their clients are oil and gas companies. The firm is now called Bracewell and Giuliani.

This is not to say that every person in the oil industry was involved in 911. However, Rudy Giuliani would be on the short list of those who need to be investigated and deposed in any re-investigation of what occurred.

I am not going to argue the above. I only posted it because you asked.

So the real reason you believe in CD has nothing to do with engineering problems.

ETA: You're saying that in order to destroy some incriminating documents in WTC7 they destroyed WTC1&2, flew a plane into the Pentagon and one into the ground in Pa., does this really make any sense to you?

 

[Justin39640]

So the real reason you believe in CD has nothing to do with engineering problems.

Shocking isn't it.

 

[GlennB]

...
it was a garbage can for incriminating case files of elite people that could be taken down with the excuse that damage from the twin towers caused it.

And there, though you don't realise it, is exactly why WTC7 cannot have been brought down maliciously.

A clue ... the word "excuse".

See if you can work it out.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

So the real reason you believe in CD has nothing to do with engineering problems.

ETA: You're saying that in order to destroy some incriminating documents in WTC7 they destroyed WTC1&2, flew a plane into the Pentagon and one into the ground in Pa., does this really make any sense to you?

Sure it has to do with engineering issues.

The reason I became suspicious of the true nature of the events was because the explanations that fire caused these collapses did not work engineering wise. The freefall acceleration of WTC 7 and continuous acceleration of the North Tower are clear and unambiguous indications of unnatural causes.

The real perpetrators would have been better off blaming terrorists for planting charges in the buildings but that probably would have opened up too much room for investigation. The aircraft impacts were used to blame outsiders and it seems they decided it was better to just say the aircraft impacts and fires brought down the buildings which most people, not being very technical, would easily accept.

The so-called war on terror, which Dick Cheney famously said would not end in our lifetime, is a paradigm shift used for control of resources by the few and the things needed to get it going on 911 were not much to do in comparison. WTC 7 was just a throw in.

 

[cantonear1968]

Have you ever heard of EMI/EMC protection?

Yes Tony. It is the grain of truth that allows all conspiracy theories to take root, yet is completely impractical for any sort of realistic applications. Such as "voice morphing technology". It is the pseudo-realistic techno babble that con men use to convince the gullible.

Rudy was inside a basement two blocks away while WTC 1 was collapsing. He was never in danger.

And these are the sort of idiotic ideas that render any 9/11 Conspiracy impractical from the start. A plan that wouldn't make it to the planning stage let alone through any tactical state:

Evil Doers: Rudy, we have a life of leisure set up for you off of oil money, only we need something from you: we need to drop a building on you. You should be safe; we'll put you in the basement!
Giuliani: How heavy is the building?
EDs: Only 250,000 tons!
G: Oh! I should be fine then! I'll do it!

I'm really not sure how you can float the foolish idea that someone would willingly stand under a collapsing building!

The collapse of WTC 7 occurred before Enron spun out of control and a couple of key executives could not be saved.

And simply more babble illustrating you don't know what you are talking about. The Enron fraud was revealed in October of 2001 with its stock starting to plummet at this time. Are you suggesting the FBI built this case in a month? No. The indicators for Enron's shady dealings go back as far as February of 2001 with more and more media attention being generated in April of 2001.The question still remains: exactly what documents do you suggest were eliminated in the WTC 7 collapse? What ever-elusive "proof" of the "How many others" do you believe existed that didn't come from Enron's own records, which is how these convictions were actually processed?

ETA: and how many agents have come forward to state they had all this evidence against the "How many others" involved, but they lost it in the WTC 7 collapse?
Would it be none?

I am not going to continue arguing this.

Yes, stopping while you are behind is probably the best course of action.

 

[Justin39640]

Sure it has to do with engineering issues.

The reason I became suspicious of the true nature of the events was because the explanations that fire caused these collapses did not work engineering wise. The freefall acceleration of WTC 7 and continuous acceleration of the North Tower are clear and unambiguous indications of unnatural causes.

The real perpetrators would have been better off blaming terrorists for planting charges in the buildings but that probably would have opened up too much room for investigation. The aircraft impacts were used to blame outsiders and it seems they decided it was better to just say the aircraft impacts and fires brought down the buildings which most people, not being very technical, would easily accept.

The so-called war on terror, which Dick Cheney famously said would not end in our lifetime, is a paradigm shift used for control of resources by the few and the things needed to get it going on 911 were not much to do in comparison. WTC 7 was just a throw in.

That didn't sound like engineering issues to me. Just sayin'

 

[pgimeno]

Whining about a single column failure mode of a girder in a 47 story building isn't nitpicking though. Got it. Add hypocrite to the list.

FTFY. And one that isn't even mentioned in NIST's principal findings.

Fun thing is, using that degree of nitpicking they totally rule out collapse by fire as if that were the only possible cause for a floor to collapse.

 

[deeper]

It isn't hard to see that 911 and the ensuing wars had something to do with oil, and guess who Rudy works for now. He was made a full partner in the Bracewell and Patterson law firm in Houston and the majority of their clients are oil and gas companies. The firm is now called Bracewell and Giuliani.

So, Giuliani's reward for his part in the most audacious and complicated mass murder the world has ever seen was..............a better job?

 

[NoahFence]

I don't think most people would call it nitpicking to scrutinize the analysis of how that one column supposedly failed when the complete collapse of the building is blamed on the failure of that one column.

On the other hand, your logic is hard to understand.

If it wasn't that column it would have been another. That's the fact.

There is no other explanation. Controlled Demo is OUT. Thermite is OUT.

If you can come up with another one, feel free. Pixie dust?

 

[NoahFence]

indications of unnatural causes.

Tony.

Crashing an airplane into a building and letting it burn with zero firefighting efforts is not a natural cause.

WTC 7 is IRRELEVANT. So who cares.

WTC 7 was just a throw in.

Gotta love this logic. So a building twice the size of the previous largest controlled demo EVER in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD, was a "throw in".

Holy crap.

 

[RedIbis]

So, Giuliani's reward for his part in the most audacious and complicated mass murder the world has ever seen was..............a better job?

You can never underestimate pride. Foolish as that may be.

 

[NoahFence]

So you think Gulianni "Made out like a bandit" too?

I guess him losing friends that day was just an inconvienience.

 

[RedIbis]

So you think Gulianni "Made out like a bandit" too?

Sure, considering he held a paper mask to his face and told people to run away from a giant rolling dust cloud and then proceeded to make millions off talking about it, I'd say he made out like a bandit.

 

[dc1971]

I can't, I am too busy with my own face palm over your incredulousness that wireless detonators would have to go off. Have you ever heard of EMI/EMC protection? Rudy was inside a basement two blocks away while WTC 1 was collapsing. He was never in danger. The collapse of WTC 7 occurred before Enron spun out of control and a couple of key executives could not be saved. How many others that were probably much higher up on the ladder politically had to be involved in that whole scheme?

Tony? Seriously! Give it up!

I am not going to continue arguing this.

ETA: Well oopsy-daisy then! I guess you beat me to the punch!