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Does Islam belong in Germany?

Abdul Alhazred

Philosopher
A
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Messages
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Merkel ally says Islam not part of Germany (Reuters)

This guy said "Nein!"

220px-Volker_kauder_hamm_cdu.jpg


...

This guy said "Ja, tatsächlich!"

xgfyfc.jpg
 
One of my physicians told me he was born in Germany... 3 days from the date I was, in 1938... and was a Palestinian.
He has no regard for the Germany of that period.
 
No system of false beliefs belongs anywhere, if you want to get technical about it. And the Germans are known as a technical people.
 
A conservative German politician thinks a Middle Eastern religion is not part of "German identity" and does not belong in Germany?

That's never led to anything bad before!
 
ANTPogo said:
A conservative German politician thinks a Middle Eastern religion is not part of "German identity" and does not belong in Germany?

That's never led to anything bad before!
Click to expand...

Godwin.

People are slow learners. The Muslims knew they were Germans when they moved in on them. Didn't care. Moved right on in anyhow. Perhaps the Muslims thought there was some sort of unspoken understanding between them and the Germans due to the whole Muslim Jew-hate thing.

Well, surprise. There is no unspoken understanding. Except the one that says Germans are still Germans, after all those centuries and all those wars, win, lose, or draw.
 
Toontown said:
Godwin.

People are slow learners. The Muslims knew they were Germans when they moved in on them. Didn't care. Moved right on in anyhow. Perhaps the Muslims thought there was some sort of unspoken understanding between them and the Germans due to the whole Muslim Jew-hate thing.

Well, surprise. There is no unspoken understanding. Except the one that says Germans are still Germans, after all those centuries and all those wars, win, lose, or draw.
Click to expand...

There was the so-called Grand Mufti of Palestine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini

Still, it pains me to admit it, because over half my DNA is German, but it's true. As long as there is a Germany, anybody who doesn't drink beer and eat roasted pigs hocks had better always look in the rear-view mirror.
 
Toontown said:
Godwin.

People are slow learners. The Muslims knew they were Germans when they moved in on them. Didn't care. Moved right on in anyhow.
Click to expand...

When they moved in on them? Does this mean that Muslims are not supposed to be able to emigrate to Germany? To move in on someone suggests some kind of imposition or invasion. Is this how you see it?

Perhaps the Muslims thought there was some sort of unspoken understanding between them and the Germans due to the whole Muslim Jew-hate thing.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps this tells us more about your prejudices than those collectively held by Muslims and Germans.

Well, surprise. There is no unspoken understanding. Except the one that says Germans are still Germans, after all those centuries and all those wars, win, lose, or draw.
Click to expand...

And would you like to tell us a little of this essence of Germans qua Germans?
 
Most of the Muslims in Germany are Turkish foreign labourers, or their descendents, who were invited to come to Germany and work in the 70s.
 
angrysoba said:
When they moved in on them? Does this mean that Muslims are not supposed to be able to emigrate to Germany? To move in on someone suggests some kind of imposition or invasion. Is this how you see it?

Or perhaps this tells us more about your prejudices than those collectively held by Muslims and Germans.

And would you like to tell us a little of this essence of Germans qua Germans?
Click to expand...

Can the interrogation, Herr Inquisitor. I said what I said, it means what it means. You don't need to peruse it, sniff it, and gnaw at it all day.

Strawberry fields forever.
 
Personally, I'd argue that religion of any kind doesn't "belong" in Germany, or anywhere else. However, religion exists, and the majority of the world's people believe in it in one form or another.

There are therefore, in my opinion, only two rational responses. First, outlaw all religion. This has been tried in China, Vietnam, the USSR, Cuba, etc....generally with terribly results (not only failing to eliminate religion, but causing terrible suffering in the attempt). So, while arguable a rational response, it is not terribly practical, and personally I'm opposed to it. Second, allow all of them. There's no room for saying "This religion 'belongs', but this one doesn't."
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
This guy said "Ja, tatsächlich!"

[qimg]http://i42.tinypic.com/xgfyfc.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...
You're aware that the Muslim SS unit al-Husseini helped raise was meant to stay and fight in Bosnia?

ANTPogo said:
A conservative German politician thinks a Middle Eastern religion is not part of "German identity" and does not belong in Germany?

That's never led to anything bad before!
Click to expand...
You mean Himmler's attempts to establish a pagan cult? :boxedin:
 
Toontown said:
Godwin.
Click to expand...
That Godwin is right there in the OP.

Toontown said:
People are slow learners. The Muslims knew they were Germans when they moved in on them. Didn't care. Moved right on in anyhow. Perhaps the Muslims thought there was some sort of unspoken understanding between them and the Germans due to the whole Muslim Jew-hate thing.

Well, surprise. There is no unspoken understanding. Except the one that says Germans are still Germans, after all those centuries and all those wars, win, lose, or draw.
Click to expand...
Bollocks. Utter BS. All Western-European states have immigrant populations of comparable size, most of those immigrants being Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East (and Pakistan in the case of the UK). Sort this table and you'll see that France, Switzerland and the Netherlands - just to name three - have percentage-wise more Muslims than Germany.
 
Wolfman said:
Personally, I'd argue that religion of any kind doesn't "belong" in Germany, or anywhere else. However, religion exists, and the majority of the world's people believe in it in one form or another.

There are therefore, in my opinion, only two rational responses. First, outlaw all religion. This has been tried in China, Vietnam, the USSR, Cuba, etc....generally with terribly results (not only failing to eliminate religion, but causing terrible suffering in the attempt). So, while arguable a rational response, it is not terribly practical, and personally I'm opposed to it. Second, allow all of them. There's no room for saying "This religion 'belongs', but this one doesn't."
Click to expand...

This exactly.


I don't like the phrase "Islam belongs to Germany" ("der Islam gehört zu Deutschland" - the translation is good). I think it grew out of rejecting the negation: "Islam doesn't belong to Germany". The statement and its negation ought not be construed as a dichotomy - or if they are, it is a false one. "Zu etwas gehören" (to belong to something) is a normative statement, and obviously there is at least a third option: That there is no norm concerning the presence of Islam in Germany. Islam is a matter of fact in Germany: Millions living in Germany identify themselves as muslims, many of them with citizenship. No-one is going to mass-deport or re-educate them, so it is an obvious fact of life that Islam is in Germany. If it had so happened that there were only a handful of muslims in Germany, or none at all, would any polititian say "Islam belongs to Germany" and deduct from that norm that politics should enact programs to bring Islam to Germany? Of course not. Or what if, for whatever reason, all muslims were to emigrate or drop their faith - would any of the politicians who say that Islam belongs to Germany be very sad? Unlikely.

So why do they say this? I frankly don't know.
 
Its jsut a never case of the current hate group being singled out again I wander who it wil be in 40 years time.
 
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