Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I'm still floored by the testimony that the state has no evidence to support the claims that Zimmerman confronted Martin and that Zimmerman initiated the altercation.

I'm not. Does anyone honestly think that they weren't going to prosecute this case due to the political pressure, regardless of whether they have a strong case? Just think of what happens once Mara gets his hands on all of the evidence, which he evidently doesn't even have access to now.

BTW, the theater where he offered to get the proof that zimmerman had a broken nose to the investigator was great theater, no?!

BTW, I've seen no mention here of the prosecutor trying to bring up the police getting GZ's cell phone and it having some text message on their about Trayvon's dad? But the judge wouldn't allow him to bring it up. Anyone have any idea or theories what the heck that was about?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

CNN has a partial transcript up. They did not transcribe testimony taken during commercial break.

Thanks. Interesting stuff there, I did not get on early enough to catch that.

CrimResearch, do you still want to lecture me on how that affidavit was not really that poorly written . Didn't the fact that it was poorly written allow Mara to tear it apart with this line of questioning? I mean, he made it look pretty pathetic, didn't he?

 

[RandFan]

Transcript:

Defense: There's no case.
Offense: Yes there is, we just haven't shown it to you yet.
Judge: Doesn't really look like much. Let him out for 150.

Why not OR? Was the judge trying to split the baby?

 

[Cylinder]

BTW, I've seen no mention here of the prosecutor trying to bring up the police getting GZ's cell phone and it having some text message on their about Trayvon's dad? But the judge wouldn't allow him to bring it up. Anyone have any idea or theories what the heck that was about?

That part is in the transcript:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Now, sir, you had a phone at some point and you agreed to turn over that phone to the police so they could make a copy of what was in there, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that phone did you receive or send text messages sir.

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever make any reference to a reverend?

O'MARA: Objection, your honor. Outside the scope.

JUDGE LESTER: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever make any reference to Mr. Martin, the father of the victim?

JUDGE LESTER: Sustained. You're getting a little bit far away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize your honor. My question is he was asked in terms of apology to the family and I'd like to be able to address that if I could. JUDGE LESTER: I think you can classify that whether or not he asked the apology. I don't want to get into other areas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

JUDGE LESTER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, Mr. Zimmerman, do you recall sending a message to someone, an e-mail, about referring to the victim's father?

ZIMMERMAN: No, sir. I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just to anticipate, I guess -- is the court ruling that I can't ask him about the statements he made to the police in terms of his limited testimony? I just want to -- before I get that out don't want to be trying to ask the question and objections being made.

JUDGE LESTER: You've already anticipated and you can anticipate my ruling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, your honor. I have no further questions, your honor.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm still floored by the testimony that the state has no evidence to support the claims that Zimmerman confronted Martin and that Zimmerman initiated the altercation.

Does the personal knowledge of the prosecutor's investigator necessarily represent the totality of the state's case?

 

[Cylinder]

Does the personal knowledge of the prosecutor's investigator necessarily represent the totality of the state's case?

No - but this is the state's lead investigator, not a subordinate detective running down individual leads. This clown could not present evidence for claims he had sworn to in the probable cause affidavit. That's pretty telling, IMHO.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

That part is in the transcript:

Right, I heard that, I'm asking if anyone has any theories what the heck that was all about ?!

 

[Cylinder]

Why wasn't Zimmerman arrested that night?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do you know who started the fight?

GILBREATH: Do I know?

O'MARA: Right.

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?

GILBREATH: No.

 

[Cylinder]

Right, I heard that, I'm asking if anyone has any theories what the heck that was all about ?!

I think the judge is ruling that questioning Zimmerman on specific sequences about when (or if) he expressed remorse is outside the scope of the probable cause and bond hearings.

 

[johnny karate]

No - but this is the state's lead investigator, not a subordinate detective running down individual leads. This clown could not present evidence for claims he had sworn to in the probable cause affidavit. That's pretty telling, IMHO.

Gilbreath indicated in his testimony that the affidavit was a "collaborative document" so I'm not sure it's fair to attribute everything in it to him.

You might be right, but I think it's a little early in the game to be making declarative statements about what the state does or doesn't have.

 

[Cylinder]

Gilbreath indicated in his testimony that the affidavit was a "collaborative document" so I'm not sure it's fair to attribute everything in it to him.

You might be right, but I think it's a little early in the game to be making declarative statements about what the state does or doesn't have.

I totally agree. It is a bit odd, though. Certainly this particular investigator won't be able to change horses at this point.

 

[RandFan]

"I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son," Zimmerman told Martin's parents Friday in what his attorney said was a risky and heartfelt apology from the witness stand. "I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I was and I did not know if he was armed or not."

There is no evidence other than Zimmerman's testimony that there was anything other than a fight. Had Zimmerman not had a gun, IMO, both would be alive today.

I think Zimmerman is sincerely sorry. I think others should know that killing people can have devastating consequences. Human life is precious. Don't go following people with guns if there is no evidence of a crime being committed and there is no imminent danger.

Sorry to beat this otherwise dead horse but the apology, to me, is all but meaningless. It's one thing to make a mistake where someone ends up dead. It's another thing to actively put yourself in the position to kill someone unnecessarily.

 

[KatieG]

That is the undisputed evidence I have seen from many different media sources. Are you aware of any statement by witness to the contrary or any statement by the police that the physical evidence is contrary? I don't believe that even the girlfriend who heard it has claimed that Zimmerman threw the first punch. Where there is only 1 witness who claims to have seen the first punch, and no evidence to the contrary, the 1 witness, Zimmerman, is what you've got.

No witness has stated they saw the beginning of the fight. Not a single witness. They reported seeing 2 figures in back public area fighting. GZ saying TM threw the first punch is not evidence. It's his version and subject to scrutiny.

What has been reported by his girlfriend has not been totally released yet.

Even if TM struck the first blow, his actions also fall under the SYG law.

Either way, GZ should have stayed his happy ass in his truck until the police arrived.

 

[KatieG]

There is no evidence other than Zimmerman's testimony that there was anything other than a fight. Had Zimmerman not had a gun, IMO, both would be alive today.

I think Zimmerman is sincerely sorry. I think others should know that killing people can have devastating consequences. Human life is precious. Don't go following people with guns if there is no evidence of a crime being committed and there is no imminent danger.

Sorry to beat this otherwise dead horse but the apology, to me, is all but meaningless. It's one thing to make a mistake where someone ends up dead. It's another thing to actively put yourself in the position to kill someone unnecessarily.

That apology was a sorry piece of work. The Martins had already declined a meeting with GZ. For him to force that apology on them at the bond hearing was disgusting.

 

[Unabogie]

By the way, I think in looking at the photo of Zimmerman's head, does in fact prove that the images "enhanced" by ramping up the contrast (thereby removing detail, not adding it) were in fact deceptive.

Here's Fox trumpeting the injuries.

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/fn2/video/040312_abc_zimmerman_640.jpg

We can clearly see that the big gash from top to bottom doesn't exist. In fact, looking at the video from 30 minutes later, most of this cleaned up.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZhpcM2K

The horizontal line on the left is totally missing from the enhanced shot.

Also, I wonder which of these wounds he claims needed stitches the next day?

 

[johnny karate]

There is no evidence other than Zimmerman's testimony that there was anything other than a fight. Had Zimmerman not had a gun, IMO, both would be alive today.

I think Zimmerman is sincerely sorry. I think others should know that killing people can have devastating consequences. Human life is precious. Don't go following people with guns if there is no evidence of a crime being committed and there is no imminent danger.

Sorry to beat this otherwise dead horse but the apology, to me, is all but meaningless. It's one thing to make a mistake where someone ends up dead. It's another thing to actively put yourself in the position to kill someone unnecessarily.

Agreed. Although, I'm not entirely convinced about Zimmerman's remorse. His apology seemed to say "Sorry about killing your son, but he kind of had it coming". And there was the complete lack of any remorse expressed on his website amid all the American flags and "Long Live Zimmerman" nonsense. I think he's sorry about how things turned out, but the fact that Trayvon Martin is dead isn't at the top of his list of regrets.

 

[Giz]

Even if TM struck the first blow, his actions also fall under the SYG law.

Surely it depends on WHY he struck the first blow?

(assuming he did)

 

[johnny karate]

By the way, I think in looking at the photo of Zimmerman's head, does in fact prove that the images "enhanced" by ramping up the contrast (thereby removing detail, not adding it) were in fact deceptive.

Here's Fox trumpeting the injuries.

http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/fn2/video/040312_abc_zimmerman_640.jpg

We can clearly see that the big gash from top to bottom doesn't exist. In fact, looking at the video from 30 minutes later, most of this cleaned up.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZhpcM2K

The horizontal line on the left is totally missing from the enhanced shot.

Also, I wonder which of these wounds he claims needed stitches the next day?

Yeah, I pointed this out upthread. Some people have their knickers in twist over how the dastardly media reported the video didn't show any injuries (which it doesn't), but none of those people seem too concerned with that same media running those "enhanced" images of a long, vertical "gash" which have now been proven to be fraudulent.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Surely it depends on WHY he struck the first blow?

(assuming he did)

Yes, of course it does! You can't just claim you were afraid, you have to prove you had reasonable ground to be afraid and defend yourself. I think it's quite safe to say that thinking you were being followed does not meet that bar.

(again, this makes no assumption that TM did in fact attack, it's simply responding to the theoretical)

 

[RandFan]

That apology was a sorry piece of work. The Martins had already declined a meeting with GZ. For him to force that apology on them at the bond hearing was disgusting.

Agreed.

Agreed. Although, I'm not entirely convinced about Zimmerman's remorse. His apology seemed to say "Sorry about killing your son, but he kind of had it coming". And there was the complete lack of any remorse expressed on his website amid all the American flags and "Long Live Zimmerman" nonsense. I think he's sorry about how things turned out, but the fact that Trayvon Martin is dead isn't at the top of his list of regrets.

Fair enough. I'm possibly projecting. If I had killed another person who was minding his own business, regardless of what ensued after I initiated actions that resulted in the death of someone unnecessarily, I'd be pretty damn sorry.