General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[TSR]

As you wish:

Do you see Hitler killing Jews?

No...

Not in a single photographic moment in the course of events which took place over a matter of years.

I also do not see, in that supposed (probably forged) photograph Hitler eating, taking a crap, or committing suicide -- I suppose he never did any of those things, either...

There is, a powerful living myth which you can only blame for the 6,000,000 fictional deaths happening inside your mind every moment.

The topic here is not "fictional deaths". It is you denial of the reality, illuminated by literally mountains of evidence of all sorts, of the attempt to remove an entire people from the face of the Earth.

Still, the myth is intact. You cannot touch it. You are an mere mortal.

As are we all.

Care to stop waving your hands for a bit -- it apparently makes it impossible for you to make coherent, factual and on-topic posts.

 

[000063]

Very flat indeed!

1. Quote mine. You do realize people can see the original post by clicking on the arrow next to the name, right?
2. Argument by One Liner.

Yet you have no problem whatsoever with Clayton asking for evidence, then moving the goalposts, and then dismissing the evidence out of hand.

And when sources were provided several pages back, you implied you would have to buy all of it, when several items were available online, meaning you made no actual effort to find them.

Yes, you're clearly consistent and objective.

Yep, clearly objective.

He's suggesting that you will try and dismiss the evidence out of hand (hand-waving), and says that you cannot do that and expect to be taken seriously. He also said that YV has extensive documentation on their provenance.

Since he did so, of course, you ignored the question of provenance entirely to make a personal attack.

I see the "personal vendetta" narrative you're attempting to weave here.

Yet you have made no substantiative response to ANTPogo's criticisms of your discovery. In fact, you actually went back several pages to respond to an old post in order to smokescreen.

He is, however, entitled to criticize that discernment, whether positively or negatively.

JAQing off, we know.

Your arrogance is staggering. Have you considered that Terry simply does not like you, and that it might be your fault?

He is attempting to show you the flaws in your reasoning. I'm not sure how someone can ask if someone is a "self-hating Jew" and with their next breath claim to be a critical thinker, but sure. You cannot dismiss several paragraphs of criticism with an irrelevant remark about what you think someone is trying to do. That's an ad hom.

Nick Terry has pointed out that many of your JAQs can be easily answered with a small amount of effort, and you ignore that to attack him and make baseless statements about his intent. Your so-called critical thinking is largely one-sided.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If you actually read Dr. Terry's or Lemmycaution's . . .

Holy crap, this is the 2nd time in 2 days someone paid me this same compliment. Thank you!

 

[LemmyCaution]

Appellare ad Prophetia.

If you know that would happen, why did you bother to take part into?

What fool you are...

I can think of two reasons that are not foolish at all. 1) Despite your illusions to the contrary, there are other members of the forum - and these other members find references useful. 2) To watch you act like an idiot. Which you did. Not so foolish after all.

 

[000063]

Wait, that is your third post in the same page! How do you expect to me answer quickly when you and others cannot just wait to me answer?

You are freaking out.

Yet you have time to hunt down posts from pages back and respond to them. It's not like you're actually responding in a linear fashion. Your hypocrisy is especially transparent if you check the source, since you responded to a post from pages back right above the post you are responding to. And that post was your fourth on the page.

You got the record! That is the post four.

You like to stalk users in forums?

Funny.

Like I said, I notice posting habits easily, especially when people try to avoid questions.

As you wish:

[qimg]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9171/adolfhitlerunpublishedm.jpg[/qimg]

Do you see Hitler killing Jews?

No...

There is, a powerful living myth which you can only blame for the 6,000,000 fictional deaths happening inside your mind every moment.

Still, the myth is intact. You cannot touch it. You are an mere mortal.

Do you see Osama bin Laden plotting to murder thousands of Americans?

No...

Do you see Timothy McVeigh plotting to murder thousands of Americans?

No...

Do you see Roman Polanski raping a 14-year old girl?

No...

But please, continue to try and change the subject from your nonsensical and irrelevant "statistical analysis", while continuing to ignore #677.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Which social scientists estimated the 6,000,000 number of the Holocaust victims?

I don't know, I give up, who?

Hilberg, I know, estimated 5.1 million victims. But that isn't 6 million.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Can I ask, has Snake Tongue definitively resolved that he wants to discuss historical casualty statistics, and specifically the numbers for the Holocaust?

Has the thread drifted definitively to this topic?

In all honesty I cannot state what he wants to do besides dispute anything he is offered, deny the Holocaust, and pick quibbles. The result is such sudden and extreme veering that he has become incoherent and the entire thread along with him.

I did manage to pick up that Dogzilla is still smarting over his inability to formulate a meaningful response to the Jaeger report in defense of his propositions that it focused on partisans and/or cleansing through population movement.

 

[Nick Terry]

While we're waiting for the duhniers to return, I propose the following simple game: name the worst 'revisionist' book or article it has been your misfortune to encounter.

 

[abaddon]

Wait just a moment

Some people thinks the bible is a historical book and the old testament is a reliable source to know precisely how many were exterminated by the Hebrews.
I do not.

You are stating that the bible is plain flat out wrong?

 

[A'isha]

While we're waiting for the duhniers to return, I propose the following simple game: name the worst 'revisionist' book or article it has been your misfortune to encounter.

Hmmm....probably Carlos Porter's "Made in Russia: the Holocaust".

As a runner-up, I pick his entire vile website. I always feel vaguely sick and dirty after visiting it.

 

[LSSBB]

While we're waiting for the duhniers to return, I propose the following simple game: name the worst 'revisionist' book or article it has been your misfortune to encounter.

" The Hoax of the Twentieth Century: The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry" by Butz, because he brought dishonor to my (Master's Degree) Alma Mater.

 

[SnakeTongue]

SnakeTongue, please find me the online URL for the following source

Soviet Consulate General in Harbin to AmbassadorRoshchin,15November, 1949,
AVPRF, f 0308, o 1, p 4, d 31, pp. 2 – 20

cited in Odd Arne Westad, 'Losses, Chances and Myths: The United States and the Sino-Soviet Alliance, 1945-1950', Diplomatic History, Vol. 21, No. 1 (Winter 1997), pp.105-115, here p.108

Currently, Foreign Policy Archives of the Russian Federation, located in two buildings - at Smolensk, Haymarket, 32/34 and Plotnikov Pereulok., 11 - has more than 26 km of shelving, which has about 1,500 thousand units.

http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-arch.nsf...6b06004bbbe2/e56f278e3983211e442579ca003ed1eb​

 

[A'isha]

Currently, Foreign Policy Archives of the Russian Federation, located in two buildings - at Smolensk, Haymarket, 32/34 and Plotnikov Pereulok., 11 - has more than 26 km of shelving, which has about 1,500 thousand units.

http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-arch.nsf...6b06004bbbe2/e56f278e3983211e442579ca003ed1eb​

That link does not go to the document he asked you to provide a URL for, SnakeTongue.

What's the URL for the document "Soviet Consulate General in Harbin to Ambassador Roshchin, 15 November, 1949", AVPRF, f 0308, o 1, p 4, d 31, pp. 2 – 20?

 

[TSR]

SnakeTongue, please find me the online URL for the following source

Soviet Consulate General in Harbin to AmbassadorRoshchin,15November, 1949,
AVPRF, f 0308, o 1, p 4, d 31, pp. 2 – 20

cited in Odd Arne Westad, 'Losses, Chances and Myths: The United States and the Sino-Soviet Alliance, 1945-1950', Diplomatic History, Vol. 21, No. 1 (Winter 1997), pp.105-115, here p.108

Currently, Foreign Policy Archives of the Russian Federation, located in two buildings - at Smolensk, Haymarket, 32/34 and Plotnikov Pereulok., 11 - has more than 26 km of shelving, which has about 1,500 thousand units.

http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-arch.nsf...6b06004bbbe2/e56f278e3983211e442579ca003ed1eb​

That "whoosh" you heard was the point going approximate 500 MPH at an altitude of roughly 70,000 mi over ST's head...

 

[Dogzilla]

Now we begin to get to the corner painting in earnest: Dutch Jews were deported to where? For what reason? How many survived the war in their new homes?

You see, Anne Frank is a microcosm of the ~ 100k Dutch Jews who were "treated poorly". Exactly how were they treated, and why did Nazis do so, given that you have already started out admitting they had done nothing to deserve being treated differently from anyone else?

Using Anne Frank as a microcosm for the fate of the Dutch Jews in general, we can say that most of the Dutch Jews were shipped off to Auschwitz--the only death camp for Jews that was still operating and the place where Jews were sent to be exterminated--in August 1944. I don't know what Anne or her family did while the Jews all around her were being gassed 24/7. Probably the same thing all the Dutch Jews did--wait around for their turn to be exterminated in gas chambers as part of the Nazi plan to kill all the Jews in Europe. After they were exterminated and left the camp through the chimney, they were forced to survive a death march to Bergen-Belsen. This is where some of the Dutch Jews got sick and died, like Anne and her sister while others (like their father) didn't succumb to the Nazi extermination program until 1980.

 

[SnakeTongue]

I used logic, which would indicate you can't gas someone to death in an enclosed chamber if they're not in an enclosed chamber, as I said in the post.

Appellare ad manifestum.

A∈B ∴ C ∴ A∈B

Your logic did not present any indication of people being forced into a gas chamber...

I note that you didn't actually answer the question I asked you. I also pointed out that all you had was "I guess" and "maybe" and no actual evidence. You can't even prove your speculation that the car was not produced in 1945, nor your claim that the part with the sick patients was not filmed on the same occasion, nor your claim that the pipe is not attached to the original exhaust pipe.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/geralds_1311/6011991607/in/set-72157629767639495

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/18789994

http://www.flickr.com/photos/geralds_1311/6934257481/sizes/l/in/photostream/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx4pUKF7I1E

Kevin asked you to prove the video was staged. You could not. I asked you to prove the video was staged. You could not. The video stands as evidence, regardless of your incredulity and evasion.

Of course, we call all see you're desperately ignoring #600 and now #677.

Who is "we"?

 

[TSR]

Using Anne Frank as a microcosm for the fate of the Dutch Jews in general, we can say that most of the Dutch Jews were shipped off to Auschwitz

Not just Auschwitz and she first went to Westerbork, but moving forward since this is the closest you've come so far...

--the only death camp for Jews that was still operating

...but only for the first part of your sentence.

Chelmo was in operation until early '45, and Auschwitz was not exclusively a death camp.

and the place where Jews were sent to be exterminated

Or to be used as slave labour...

--in August 1944.

Actually, she wasn't sent to Auschwitz until September of that year.

You really should learn some of this whole history thingy before you expose even more of your arrogant ignorance.

I don't know what Anne or her family did while the Jews all around her were being gassed 24/7.

Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy to support that all Jews around were being gassed 24/7 while Anne was there?

Probably the same thing all the Dutch Jews did--wait around for their turn to be exterminated in gas chambers as part of the Nazi plan to kill all the Jews in Europe.

Kommando III did a whole lot more than "wait around"

After they were exterminated and left the camp through the chimney, they were forced to survive a death march to Bergen-Belsen.

They were not marched....

This is where some of the Dutch Jews got sick and died, like Anne and her sister while others (like their father) didn't succumb to the Nazi extermination program until 1980.

... and Anne's father was never sent to Bergen-Belsen.

Try again -- and tell the truth this time.

 

[SnakeTongue]

It's quite clear you don't understand the critique, which contains a summary of the available evidence on the Reinhard camps as well as a critique of Holocaust denier nonsense.

It's also really funny to see you play the 'you're only writing a critique' card, since by that reckoning 99% of 'revisionism' can be thrown in the trash can. Graf wrote what he thought was a critique of Hilberg. He didn't write a new study about Nazi Jewish policy showing us what really happened. Maybe that's why he's been ignored by conventional scholars.

Yes, that is the point.

We, however, are going to be cited by conventional scholars, and have received many compliments from real historians who unlike you are capable of working out that the white paper has two parts to it.

Congratulations.

If you say this, then you haven't read the critique. Simple as that. The structure and style alternates between outlining the evidence across all categories - wartime reports, documents, witnesses, physical evidence - and showing how this evidence has been either ignored or misinterpreted by the leading 'revisionist' gurus'. One could very easily extract a 300 page book from the critique which did not mention denial at all.

To read your work, I would have to read the Mattogno, Graf and Kues works.

Without that, I could not understand your critique.

The real imbecility of your previous yapping is, however, when you try to furiously handwave away the evidence in the critique and babble about an 'overwhelming lack of scientific evidence'. As I said, this would presumably be the 'overwhelming lack of scientific evidence' discussed over 134 pages about mass graves and open-air cremation... right?

Never mind the fact that you obviously don't have a reasoned comeback against the other chapters, which comprehensively shred pretty much every denier fantasy about Nazi policy and the 'resettlement'/'transit' hallucination there is going.

That work was worth doing, simply to annoy people like you. Because you can't cope with the paper and can't answer it in a coherent manner. It's too much for you. Next you'll be whining that it's too long, even though it's actually shorter than the three books we demolished.

I am already reading an book (as well this thread)... Did you even thought that I could be reading a book?

 

[SnakeTongue]

I am almost reaching the end after the overloaded posts JREF forum users produced to me reply...

Stop by page 18, post 684.

 

[carlitos]

With a hearty doff of my cap to those of you posting interesting, factual and relevant historical information, and aknowledging that I am late in responding, I can't help it. One of the "revisionists" has recently posted something that I know a LOT about. And, despite the dark subject matter, I am laughing. Out loud. LOL, as the kids say.

Margin of error = 98%

Adolf Eichmann provide numerical data with 98% of error.