Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[RandFan]

I agree, at least insofar that I have no problem with Zimmerman calling 911. I don't think he had a legitimate reason to do so, but apparently he felt he did, and that's good enough to warrant a call.

I don't really fault Zimmerman for calling the police, whether his suspicion about him was correct or not. Where he went wrong was in following him.

Agreed.

 

[johnny karate]

but doesn't increase the likelihood of confrontation

But it increases the likelihood of that confrontation turning lethal, which I believe was RandFan's point.

Funny thing, Neighbour Watch and the Police would suggest that if you saw someone you though was acting strange, you should.

You know what else is funny? Those same neighborhood watch programs and police will tell you not to follow suspected criminals with a gun. So I guess we need to figure to what degree we're going to give Zimmerman a pass for supposedly following the rules.

Though not because he was being followed. He's dead because he got involved in a fight.

The following was antecedent to the fight. No following, no fight. Had Zimmerman simply stayed in his truck (according to the rules of the neighborhood watch, which seem to be suddenly back on the table), Martin would still be alive and Zimmerman wouldn't be in jail.

 

[johnny karate]

Anyone know what the quick hearing they just had today was about?

I'm guessing it was for bond?

ETA: Actually, no. It looks the bond hearing is scheduled for April 20th.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

His bail hearing is on Friday. Lawyer says he's unlikely to go to trial this year. Even now the media will not stop embellishing and reporting inaccuracies:

The fact that Zimmerman wasn’t immediately arrested for killing 17-year-old Martin — even after evidence emerged that he disregarded a police dispatcher’s order to stop tailing the teenager — caused a nationwide uproar.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-george-zimmerman-announced-article-1.1061222

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't really fault Zimmerman for calling the police, whether his suspicion about Martin was correct or not. Where he went wrong was in following him.

One could argue that the dispatcher asked Zimmerman to follow Martin, before later saying he didn't need to.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...status-hearing-second-degree-murder-affidavit

A last-minute hearing will unfold today in the second-degree murder case against George Zimmerman, accused of fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Feburary.

The status hearing is set for this afternoon in front of Circuit Court Judge Jessica Recksiedler.

The topic of the hearing was not immediately clear. But only five minutes are set aside for the hearing.

...

 

[PhantomWolf]

If you actually are seeing a crime it is not a bad thing at all. But Zimmerman wasn't doing that now was he? He was calling the cops over someone that had a right to be there and was doing nothing wrong.

And as was noted by a poster above, people can see things that look suspicious to them, and actually aren't, including calling the cops about a kid left in a car alone, when it's not. GZ obviously thought there was enough going on that TM was suspicious or he wouldn't have called the police.

Then he decided to get out of his truck and do something about the nonexistent crime.

There is no evidence of that at all. The most we can conclude is that he got out to try and keep an eye on TM to help the cops locate him, which failed since he lost him.

 

[johnny karate]

One could argue that the dispatcher asked Zimmerman to follow Martin, before later saying he didn't need to.

Yes, one could argue that. It would be a ridiculously stupid argument, but one could make it.

 

[PhantomWolf]

GZ is not, was never, a police officer. He had no obligation to answer questions from just some guy following him.

Who said that he did? Who said that GZ asked him questions, or even tried?

 

[RandFan]

And as was noted by a poster above, people can see things that look suspicious to them...

While some of us think GZ likely hypersensitive I think we all are willing to grant him the right to call the police. Fine. He did his job. He just needed to wait for those who are trained to do their job to do it.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, one could argue that. It would be a ridiculously stupid argument, but one could make it.

Well, we all have opinions.

If you twice asked me to let you know if a guy does anything, and that guy is walking among some houses, I'd probably have to follow him.

Maybe that's just me.

 

[RandFan]

If you twice asked me to let you know if a guy does anything, and that guy is walking among some houses, I'd probably have to follow him.

Odd, I'd have to ask a question, something like, "should I follow him"? Guess when it comes to suspicious people and following someone with a gun, prudence is some hang up of mine.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I see "strange" people every day. I'm really supposed to call the police every time I see them? Just because there are people walking through my neighborhood that I don't recognize, and just because they could be criminals is hardly a reason to call the police.

But let's accept your premise to advance the discussion. What started the thread that lead to that exchange?

• No crime had been committed.
• No one was in imminent danger.

There was no need to put TM's life in danger. Would you not agree with that argument? Let me say up front that I do not claim that assuming those facts alone does not make GZ criminally negligent.

The thing is that following someone does not put their life in danger. What might put their life in danger is their taking exception to your being there and attacking you. Blaming the follower for the followees bad reaction and decisions is pretty much blaming the victim. Consider this. Had TM actually gotten hold of GZ's gun and shot him (which according to the states was actually 4.4 times more likely than what did happen) would you consider that because GZ was following TM he got what he deserved?

 

[johnny karate]

Well, we all have opinions.

If you twice asked me to let you know if a guy does anything, and that guy is walking among some houses, I'd probably have to follow him.

Maybe that's just me.

Maybe it is. Personally, I'd stay in my car and let the police do their jobs.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/At...sal/-/1637132/10705038/-/13fp7e3/-/index.html

Filing for recusal of judge?

 

[RandFan]

The thing is that following someone does not put their life in danger.

• GZ had a gun.
• GZ followed TM
• GZ shot TM
• TM is dead.
• If GZ had not followed TM then he (TM) would very likely be alive today.

Now, you can try as hard as you like to dance around the facts but they are the facts.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Um, no. There was no reason to think anything "suspicious" was going on.

You were there and saw the same thing that GZ did then?

 

[RandFan]

More facts:

The thing is that following someone does not put their life in danger.

• Following a suspicious person increases the likelihood of a confrontation.
• Having a gun increases the likelihood of that confrontation turning deadly.

Those facts are not going away either.

 

[sgtbaker]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/At...sal/-/1637132/10705038/-/13fp7e3/-/index.html

Filing for recusal of judge?

Conflict of interest can be a real pain in the ass.

 

[LTC8K6]

Odd, I'd have to ask a question, something like, "should I follow him"? Guess when it comes to suspicious people and following someone with a gun, prudence is some hang up of mine.

But he's the neighborhood watch captain, and you aren't.

He would naturally follow Martin if the dispatcher said that to him, I'd think.

He'd see it as his job.

The gun is another matter. If he normally wore it concealed, then he probably normally walks around with it and didn't even think about it when he got out of the car.

If he got it and then left the car, then I have questions about that.

If he thought Martin was reaching for his waistband, he may have thought Martin was armed. However, he doesn't express this concern to the dispatcher.

Need more data.