Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Tatyana]

Yeah sure. Like a legitimate control group of children who weren't vaccinated couldn't be found.

A US study using patient histories would not endanger anyone.

Yes, well I am sure there are some studies, however, the US health care system is so segregated by different providers, I wouldn't be surprised if this has led to issues in doing such studies.

Unlike this one, which has been published in one of the most prestigious US medical journals, which is what you are requesting, but done in Denmark.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism

METHODS
We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark....................

RESULTS
Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

 

[CORed]

You said the epidemic was world wide, why should a US study be considered any more accurate?

What is there to get lost in translation? Groups with numbers.

Hey, you don't really expect us 'Mericans to believe any so-called scientific study done by foreigners, do you? Why, I hear tell some foreigners don't even believe in the Bible. How can you trust science done by people like that?

 

[excaza]

Um, isn't Wakefield British?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Um, isn't Wakefield British?

Yes. Which is why he had to find work in America, where being struck off the GMC is less of an issue. Apparently.

 

[000063]

That's funny.

The drug companies are going to accept a hit on their vaccine cash cow without doing the big tobacco dance?

The Medical community has realized TRILLIONS of profit from autism. Millions of lifetimes of patient care. The longer they look the other way.........

And then there is the relatively unknown Office of Special Masters of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims to sweep under the rug/pay off the plight of persistent parents.

Ignoring my first line. There are plenty of private studies conducted on the matter.

If it could be proven that the drug companies knew about vaccines causing autism, we're talking several extremely public class action lawsuits worth millions, and public shaming of the people responsible, much like Big Tobacco. Not to mention KB's point that sooner or later, someone who's in on the conspiracy is going to have a kid who becomes autistic.

Of course, any speculation about why this stuff would be covered up is useless unless you can prove there's something to cover up.

 

[000063]

Thousands and thousands and thousands of parents have spoken out that their toddlers displayed autistic symptoms shortly after receiving a MMR vaccination.

Bill Clinton? The guy who didn't know oral sex was sex?

I like how you completely ignore the post that states that you're completely ignoring alternative explanations.

I've never seen a study that revealed a similar rate of autism in children who did not receive MMR vaccine.

That's either because a)you don't look for them, or b)you saw one and blocked it out, claiming it's part of the conspiracy.

Pretty convenient that the only people who can prove you wrong would themselves be "in on it".

And the control group of children not vaccinated?

I was literally just scrolling down waiting to see what one-liner you'd respond with.

 

[Clayton Moore]

And the obviously complicit US MSM isn't demanding a US based Autism study.

Go figure.


Where are the case studies or even examples of large numbers unvaccinated autistic children?

 

[carlitos]

Meta-studies are studies. You just don't understand them.

 

[Giordano]

Clayton: would a German study be acceptable?

Did you ever answer my question? Do you care more about your pet, incorrect theory or about helping prevent autism?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton: would a German study be acceptable?

Did you ever answer my question? Do you care more about your pet, incorrect theory or about helping prevent autism?

No.

I'll repeat this.

When I'm told all the kings men can't figure out how the most watched/protected/isolated/coddled beings on earth become autistic as previously asymptomatic toddlers I check for my wallet.

 

[Mudcat]

No.

I'll repeat this.

When I'm told all the kings men can't figure out how the most watched/protected/isolated/coddled beings on earth become autistic as previously asymptomatic toddlers I check for my wallet.

[Disclaimer]Warning, this following post depicts graphic images not suitable for all audiences. Viewer discretion is advised. [/disclaimer]

"coddled" child:

"protected" child:

"watched" child:

 

[Checkmite]

Clayton: would a German study be acceptable?

No.

Of course not. Studies from Europe are only acceptable if they suggest there IS a link between vaccines and autism (using fake data).

 

[Tomtomkent]

No.

I'll repeat this.

When I'm told all the kings men can't figure out how the most watched/protected/isolated/coddled beings on earth become autistic as previously asymptomatic toddlers I check for my wallet.

Unfortunately, as already discussed at length you don't know if toddlers were previously asympomatic as they had not developed enough for symptoms to be apparent. Neither does complaining that scientists SHOULD be able to answer a question right away make your randomly selected answer any more likely than alternatives. It is frankly less worthy of investigation because apart from your odd insitance US studies alone are worth while, here on planet Earth we already have data sets for peerreview from a cross section of that global phenomana you insisted MEANT vaccines were the commonality that debunk your claim. There is no connection between vaccines and autism. If a US university performs a study the resources would be better spent investigating other possible commonaliities than needlessy repeating the same studies until you like the result.

Assume for a second your statement of children being the most isolated and/or protected beings was provable or true. That itself suggests a miriad of more viable causes. When children first leave a protected home environment and enter dirty, germy, populatio ndense environments like pre-school they are exposed to germs and irritants their immune systems have not developed defences for. We see spikes in asthma, viral infections, allergic reactions and skin conditions developing. None of which are suspected to be linked to vaccines. We know autism can be caused by viral infection and there is better evidence for immune response as a cause than vaccines, so why should we overlook more likely causes, that fit better with your global claims, just to satisfy your suspicion?

 

[excaza]

I'll repeat this.

When I'm told all the kings men can't figure out how the most watched/protected/isolated/coddled beings on earth become autistic as previously asymptomatic toddlers I check for my wallet.

All the kings men can't yet figure out how to stop cancer, the common cold, AIDS, herpes, diabetes, alzheimers, dementia, ALS, ebola, polio, rabies, measles, parkinson's, etc.

This 'argument' is still as idiotic this time around as when you first said it. Repetition isn't making it any better.

 

[Clayton Moore]

All the kings men can't yet figure out how to stop cancer, the common cold, AIDS, herpes, diabetes, alzheimers, dementia, ALS, ebola, polio, rabies, measles, parkinson's, etc.

This 'argument' is still as idiotic this time around as when you first said it. Repetition isn't making it any better.

But they pretty much know the why, the how, or the cause of all of them.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Why do I think that if we only had US studies CM would be demanding European studies.

 

[Giordano]

But they pretty much know the why, the how, or the cause of all of them.

Clayton,

Autism is a mental disorder, and no one knows the why, how, or cause of the majority of serious mental disorders: schizophrenia, ADD, clinical depression, paranoia, Alzheimer's, bipolar disease, OCD, anorexia, dissociative diseases, etc. That is because the brain is so complex. Why does one person get one of these diseases, whereas another person does not? In some cases a genetic component has been proven, just like autism, but people don't know what all the genes are or how they work. In some cases we know of chemicals that can help treat the disorder, such as ADD, but often don't understand most of the details as to how they work. Interestingly, like autism, some of these diseases arise at a specific time in life (schizophrenia often first occurs in young adults); if one didn't take a scientific approach, one could confuse coincidence with cause (for example, come to believe that graduating high school caused schizophrenia in young males).

Are you next going to propose that there is a vast conspiracy to hid the causes of all of these other diseases, as well as autism, because you refuse to believe that scientists do not already know the answers? For someone so angry at, and distrusting of, medical researchers and clinicians, you have a level of faith in their talents that is rather touching...

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton,

Autism is a mental disorder, and no one knows the why, how, or cause of the majority of serious mental disorders: schizophrenia, ADD, clinical depression, paranoia, Alzheimer's, bipolar disease, OCD, anorexia, dissociative diseases, etc. That is because the brain is so complex. Why does one person get one of these diseases, whereas another person does not? In some cases a genetic component has been proven, just like autism, but people don't know what all the genes are or how they work. In some cases we know of chemicals that can help treat the disorder, such as ADD, but often don't understand most of the details as to how they work. Interestingly, like autism, some of these diseases arise at a specific time in life (schizophrenia often first occurs in young adults); if one didn't take a scientific approach, one could confuse coincidence with cause (for example, come to believe that graduating high school caused schizophrenia in young males).

Are you next going to propose that there is a vast conspiracy to hid the causes of all of these other diseases, as well as autism, because you refuse to believe that scientists do not already know the answers? For someone so angry at, and distrusting of, medical researchers and clinicians, you have a level of faith in their talents that is rather touching...

Autism is likely the aftermath of high fevers caused by vaccines.

 

[Mudcat]

Autism is likely the aftermath of high fevers caused by vaccines.

What vaccine causes high fevers, do you have sources you can cite saying that particular vaccine causes high fevers, and why doesn't high fevers from other environmental factors cause Autism?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Autism is likely the aftermath of high fevers caused by vaccines.

How likely?
More likely than fevers from the kinds of virus or infection vaccines prevent? Than the viral infections or immune system disorders already linked to autism? Based on what evidence?