Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Beerina]

Ok we need even better layman's explanation

The state does not have to prove the the deffendant planned - even for an instant - to kill the victim. They do have to prove that the defendant intended to kill (or reasonably would have known that such an act could result in the death of) the victim.

It sounds like splitting hairs. If I decide to kill someone, then pick up a knife and stab them, the process of picking up the knife amounts to planning?

If I happened to have a knife in my hand, and just decided to stab him, how is that also not planning to use the knife?

Of if I just get outraged and stab with the knife, knowing subconsciously it will kill him, but it never enters into my mind at a conscious level, "Use the knife! Use the knife! That will do it!"?

I'm trying to figure out how you can decide to kill someone without planning it, even for an instant.

 

[curi0us]

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

 

[RandFan]

The state does not have to prove the the deffendant planned - even for an instant - to kill the victim. They do have to prove that the defendant intended to kill (or reasonably would have known that such an act could result in the death of) the victim.

Voluntary (negligent) manslaughter

Involuntary (reckless) Manslaughter

In my uneducated opinion: I think involuntary is more likely and easier to prove. But then I don't know what the prosecutor knows.

Thanks Cylinder.

 

[Xulld]

I am inclined, based on Angela Corey's history, to believe they know something (significant) we do not.

 

[Noztradamus]

So what's it going to be? I'll say manslaughter (or whatever the equivalent is in Florida). I just don't think they can make a murder charge stick.

A good prosecutor can make a jam sandwich stick.

 

[Cylinder]

It sounds like splitting hairs.

Like everything else that exists within a continuum, at some point it is splitting hairs. The idea that some murders are pre-planned and should be punished more severely than murders that are spontaneous.

If I decide to kill someone, then pick up a knife and stab them, the process of picking up the knife amounts to planning?

Turning around to pick up a knife could show planning which could be evidence to prove intent. Intent in itself is a state-of-mind.

If I happened to have a knife in my hand, and just decided to stab him, how is that also not planning to use the knife?

It could be more of a spontaneous act or an act of impulse below the threshold of heat of passion. You didn't go out of your way to kill the victim.

 

[Cylinder]

Voluntary (negligent) manslaughter

Involuntary (reckless) Manslaughter

In my uneducated opinion: I think involuntary is more likely and easier to prove. But then I don't know what the prosecutor knows.

Thanks Cylinder.

Right, further down the spectrum are the manslaughter charges which removes intent as an element but includes some act which is veiwed by the law to be culpable.

 

[crimresearch]

from what i read there are not enough details as to what actually occurred.

If he (the neighborhood watch guy) was attacked physically, and he was in fear of his life, he might be let off the hook, but it's doubtful.

If there is no evidence that he was attacked, or in any way had his life threatened, he will end up with 2nd deg. Murder charges.

We'll have to wait and see what comes about. For now, i suspect that this guy was in the wrong.

post # 11

 

[curi0us]

post # 11

Does that mean the prosecutor must think that it was Martin screaming for help?

 

[Travis]

Well, this is interesting. Personally I think he is responsible for the entire situation which puts Martin's death squarely on his shoulders. But does that mean I would vote guilty of a murder charge if I was on the jury? I'm not so sure. Voting guilty on that is a very serious matter.

We'll see what new evidence comes up for the trial.

 

[RandFan]

Zimmerman's new attorney, Mark O'Mara of Orlando, Florida, said he'll seek bond for Zimmerman at a hearing on Thursday.

 

[jhunter1163]

From what I currently know about the case, I don't think they'll be able to get a conviction on second-degree murder. I'm sure that more information will be coming out though; all opinions are subject to change.

 

[crimresearch]

Does that mean the prosecutor must think that it was Martin screaming for help?

I don't know, my psychic powers ran out after predicting that the prosecution must know something that the media wasn't reporting.

After that, things are uncertain, another session may be required.

 

[Cylinder]

Zimmerman admits to intending to kill Martin - as far as I know he doen't claim that the gun went off accidentally. It's either murder or justification on its face.

 

[RandFan]

Oddly enough...

...Zimmerman is none too happy about the charges says his attorney.

 

[dudalb]

I put you down as 'riot will occur' then.

No, but for the officials not to have a contingincy plan in place would be stupid considering how high emotions are going to run with this case.

 

[leftysergeant]

From what I currently know about the case, I don't think they'll be able to get a conviction on second-degree murder. I'm sure that more information will be coming out though; all opinions are subject to change.

If he was standing over Martin and shot him, or if both were standing facing each other, it seems to me that it could be argued that he was pissed off about getting his ass kicked, thus murder 2. If Martin was on top of him (justifiablly) trying totake his gun away, it should be manslaughter, because Z created the condition that led to Martin's needing to take the gun away in self-defense.

 

[sgtbaker]

Okay, is it normal for a prosecutor to say something like the investigation was driven by the search for justice for Trayvon? I understand the need to sound confident in your decision to prosecute but implying that that was your cause from the beginning sounds more like you were searching for guilt rather than simply facts. I may be hearing her wrong but finding that there are no charges to be filed could hardly be called justice for Trayvon so I can't see how that statement to apply to anything other than convicting Zimmerman.

 

[KatieG]

Zimmerman's new attorney, Mark O'Mara of Orlando, Florida, said he'll seek bond for Zimmerman at a hearing on Thursday.

I've never been in jail and don't want to but I think GZ would be safer if he stayed in jail. The media will attack him like a wild pack of dogs.

I just want things to follow the legal, proper course of action and whatever the decision is, that's justice. If I were GZ's attorney, I think I'd go for trial by judge instead of jury. It's tricky either way but I think that would be the better choice.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I like the prosecutor. She did a good job in the press conference.

She was a great spokesperson for the state of FL, said nice things about everyone, said all the right things, and gave us no additional factual information as far as I could tell.