Five Titanic myths spread by films

I have just watched Titanic: Case Closed on natgeo.

It presents scientific evidence that puts paid to the myth of the watch sleeping, Captain Lord ignoring the Titanic sinking and ignoring aldis morse signals from Titanic.

This is explained by cold water mirages and refraction.

Worth watching.
 
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Skwinty said:
I have just watched Titanic: Case Closed on natgeo.

It presents scientific evidence that puts paid to the myth of the watch sleeping, Captain Lord ignoring the Titanic sinking and ignoring aldis morse signals from Titanic.

This is explained by cold water mirages and refraction.

Worth watching.
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Call me skeptical. Cable TV specials aren't exactly known for presenting all the sides of an issue. There's a fair amount of evidence for the story as-is:


  • Both ships were known to be in the same area
  • Both ships saw another ship
  • Californian reported seeing the other ship firing rockets, which the Titanic is known to have done
I'd also include Lord's constant story-changing about what he saw and why he didn't do anything, but a fair case can be made that he was trying to salvage his career, dignity, and/or reputation.



There's a lot to explain away with "cold water mirages and refraction." I can accept that, under just the right conditions, a similar effect might be possible. But I gotta ask, is it likely?


I think the simpler (and thus more plausible) explanation is the story as it's known; Californian was close enough for both ships to see each other, and for reasons known only to a man long dead, opted not to do anything.
 
Cleon said:
Call me skeptical. Cable TV specials aren't exactly known for presenting all the sides of an issue. There's a fair amount of evidence for the story as-is:


  • Both ships were known to be in the same area
  • Both ships saw another ship
  • Californian reported seeing the other ship firing rockets, which the Titanic is known to have done
I'd also include Lord's constant story-changing about what he saw and why he didn't do anything, but a fair case can be made that he was trying to salvage his career, dignity, and/or reputation.



There's a lot to explain away with "cold water mirages and refraction." I can accept that, under just the right conditions, a similar effect might be possible. But I gotta ask, is it likely?


I think the simpler (and thus more plausible) explanation is the story as it's known; Californian was close enough for both ships to see each other, and for reasons known only to a man long dead, opted not to do anything.
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There is also they mystery of the passing ship. The first couple of life boats were ordered to row towards a ship seen off the stern of the Titianc
 
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Skwinty said:
Would you say the same for the Smithsonian?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...ause-of-an-Optical-Illusion.html?device=bbery
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Seriously? That link is little more than a press release for the TV show. A scientific analysis it ain't.

Did you also notice how the author of the article, Tim Maltin, is himself the source material?

(And did you also notice how the title is a question, and subheader includes the words "may have?" Looks like you're more certain of Maltin's findings than Maltin is.)

I did find it cute the way Maltin refers to himself in the third person. He's the author of the article, but refers to himself like this:

An unusual optical phenomenon explains why the Titanic struck an iceberg and received no assistance from a nearby ship, according to new research by British historian Tim Maltin. Atmospheric conditions in the area that night were ripe for super refraction, Maltin found.
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Historian, eh? Not a physicist, or a meteorologist, but a historian? Well, color me convinced. I can't think of anyone more qualified to accurately reproduce the exact atmospheric and ocean conditions of a remote spot of the North Atlantic 100 years ago. That's more than enough evidence to overturn a significant chunk of the historical record.
 
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MG1962 said:
They checked that and the piece of evidence needed (Prop numbers) was confirmed to be correct
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In February 1912 Olympic lost a prop blade. She returned to Belfast where Harland and Wolfe installed one of the propellers made for the Titanic. So Olympic would have had one propeller with Titanic's build number.
The conspiracy nuts haven't seemed to notice this.
 
Cleon said:
Seriously? That link is little more than a press release for the TV show. A scientific analysis it ain't.

Did you also notice how the author of the article, Tim Maltin, is himself the source material?

(And did you also notice how the title is a question, and subheader includes the words "may have?" Looks like you're more certain of Maltin's findings than Maltin is.)

I did find it cute the way Maltin refers to himself in the third person. He's the author of the article, but refers to himself like this:

Historian, eh? Not a physicist, or a meteorologist, but a historian? Well, color me convinced. I can't think of anyone more qualified to accurately reproduce the exact atmospheric and ocean conditions of a remote spot of the North Atlantic 100 years ago. That's more than enough evidence to overturn a significant chunk of the historical record.
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The article I read on my mobile (6 pages) has Charles Floyd as the writer.

His name appears on each page. Why shouldn't a historian research maritime logs from the time of the incident.

If I am not mistaken, the Bremen log reflects many reports of refraction in the area at the same location and time, as do many of the passengers.

I think this was the ship that sailed through the flotsam and dead bodies.

Did you see the NatGeo documentary?

What evidence do you present that concludes that the watch on Titanic was asleep on duty and that Lord said **** them we are not stopping tp look for survivors?

It is easy and sensationalism to blame the dead guy and not consider reasonable doubt offered by the cold water mirage and refraction theory.
Apparently the phenomona is quite common where cold and warm water meet.

http://finland.fi/public/default.aspx?contentid=160069&contentlan=2&culture=en-US
 
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Skwinty said:
I have just watched Titanic: Case Closed on natgeo.

It presents scientific evidence that puts paid to the myth of the watch sleeping, Captain Lord ignoring the Titanic sinking and ignoring aldis morse signals from Titanic.

This is explained by cold water mirages and refraction.

Worth watching.
Click to expand...
Did it cover the idea that it was the Titanic's attempt to avoid striking the iceberg that doomed her? That a head-on (or at least bow on) hit would have caused less damage and allowed the ship to survive, in a similar way to the Niagra?
 
catsmate1 said:
Did it cover the idea that it was the Titanic's attempt to avoid striking the iceberg that doomed her? That a head-on (or at least bow on) hit would have caused less damage and allowed the ship to survive, in a similar way to the Niagra?
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Yes it did and made exactly the same observation you make.

The idea of faulty rivets was also disputed.
 
Cleon said:
  • Both ships were known to be in the same area
  • Californian reported seeing the other ship firing rockets, which the Titanic is known to have done

I think the simpler (and thus more plausible) explanation is the story as it's known; Californian was close enough for both ships to see each other, and for reasons known only to a man long dead, opted not to do anything.
Click to expand...

Largely, I agree with you but on two points above wasn't it, (1)found that RMS Titanic was found 30 miles away from where she reported she was (which is why it took so long to locate the wreck?) and hence lord thought that he saw only a "small ship"? And (2) The firing of rockets was common place on cruise liners at the time and was NOT considered a distress sign.
 
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Skwinty said:
The article I read on my mobile (6 pages) has Charles Floyd as the writer.
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Floyd did the illustrations.

1734f8572dd8eb4a.jpg


His name appears on each page. Why shouldn't a historian research maritime logs from the time of the incident.
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Who said he shouldn't?

What evidence do you present that concludes that the watch on Titanic was asleep on duty and that Lord said **** them we are not stopping tp look for survivors?
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Two things:


  • I didn't claim that the watch on (I assume you mean) California was asleep on duty. Lord was asleep, but after seventeen hours on duty you're allowed to do that. The wireless operator was also asleep, but off-duty. (Nobody woke him up, either.) Californian was a small vessel that didn't have 24/7 wireless staffing.
  • I didn't claim that Lord said "**** them we are not stopping for survivors." In fact, Californian did join the rescue effort, the next morning.
I'd thank you to not put words in my mouth. At no point have I attributed any malice or laziness on the part of Californian or Stanley Lord.

It is easy and sensationalism to blame the dead guy
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It's not "sensationalism" to go with what has been the historical record for the past century. And mind you, Lord didn't die until the 1960s; it's not like he never had an opportunity to defend himself against these accusations.

and not consider reasonable doubt offered by the cold water mirage and refraction theory.
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Again, you put words in my mouth. Let's review what I actually said, mkay?

Cleon said:
I can accept that, under just the right conditions, a similar effect might be possible. But I gotta ask, is it likely?

I think the simpler (and thus more plausible) explanation is the story as it's known; Californian was close enough for both ships to see each other, and for reasons known only to a man long dead, opted not to do anything.
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Your original claim was that the new claims "put paid" to the story as is traditionally known. Sorry, but no. It might be an intriguing possibility, but conclusive? Not by a long shot. There's still a lot to explain away.
 
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bluesjnr said:
Largely, I agree with you but on two points above wasn't it, (1)found that RMS Titanic was found 30 miles away from where she reported she was (which is why it took so long to locate the wreck?) and hence lord thought that he saw only a "small ship"?
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For various reasons, the exact positions of both ships aren't known.

And (2) The firing of rockets was common place on cruise liners at the time and was NOT considered a distress sign.
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Firing rockets wasn't commonplace, but it also wasn't a usual distress signal.

My point is that Californian saw flares, and Titanic as known to have fired them. I'm not making any claims about what Californian thought the rockets meant, only that they saw them.
 
Skwinty said:
Here is a link to Natgeo's list of facts.

http://natgeotv.com.au/tv/titanic-100-case-closed/facts-titanic-case-closed.aspx
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Interesting.

These conditions indicate that Titanic could have been in the midst of a cold water mirage.

...

However, the hot and cold air could have caused a mirage, distorting the sea, and raising up the horizon behind the iceberg, cloaking it.

...

What Capitan Stanley Lord saw that night could have been affected by refraction, distorting the ship so that it didn't look anything like Titanic at all.

...

Due to the conditions, the iceberg that damaged Titanic could have been effectively invisible for 20 minutes.
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Putting together a list of "could have beens" is not the same thing as "putting paid."

Standard fare for cable TV specials, though; a bunch of "could haves" and "might haves," then using them to form a conclusion with minimal (if any) dissenting arguments.
 
A not so prominent myth, maybe from a computer game instead of a movie, but I have heard it expressed by a couple of people; is that a young artist named Adolf Hitler was shipping some paintings to New York for his big break-through art show.
 
kedo1981 said:
A not so prominent myth, maybe from a computer game instead of a movie, but I have heard it expressed by a couple of people; is that a young artist named Adolf Hitler was shipping some paintings to New York for his big break-through art show.
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in 1912 Hitler was a penniless artist living in Vienna and working on his anti-semitism, he didn't have any money until 1913

game plot from Titanic: Adventure Out of Time said:
The number of objects the player recovers before escaping the ship affects the final cut scene and how history plays out. If the player obtains all the objects, history is altered with World War I, the Russian Revolution, and World War II never occurring — without The Rubáiyát or the diamonds, the Black Hand is not financed and their plan to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria (which would have sparked World War I) backfires. The painting Barbicon was going to trade in to Zeitel was actually painted by Adolf Hitler, and its fame after it is recovered from the sinking causes Hitler to become a famous artist, averting World War II
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic:_Adventure_Out_of_Time
 
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Pope130 said:
In February 1912 Olympic lost a prop blade. She returned to Belfast where Harland and Wolfe installed one of the propellers made for the Titanic. So Olympic would have had one propeller with Titanic's build number.
The conspiracy nuts haven't seemed to notice this.
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When they dived the Titanic they found the numbers matched up with the swap. I am too lazy right now to look it up, but in the day there was a conspiracy book on the topic. It was a shame actually because the rest of the book was extremely well done, even reprinted large slabs of the US inquiry
 
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