The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

[zooterkin]

But we can't assume Jonah rode a horse in his trip through Nineveh! So the city must (according to the Biblical account) have been about 60 miles across, and not the much larger distance suggested by King Harold's expedition.

Ah, this is about the distance to Ninevah, 390 miles, that Jonah supposedly travelled in a day, not the size of the city.

 

[Mojo]

Continuing on the 21 is rather odd.

Shouldn't that be "incredibly odd"?

 

[Marduk]

Only twice? You're being too generous!

I'm trying to balance biblical guesstimates, like the other one where it took that guy with the meaningless name 40 years to cross 1000 miles with supernatural guidance accompanied by half the worlds population
and then when he got there God wouldn't let him in

 

[Craig B]

Ah, this is about the distance to Ninevah, 390 miles, that Jonah supposedly travelled in a day, not the size of the city.

By that calculation of a supposed single day's travel, Nineveh would be 1,170 miles in diameter, at 3 days' journey. Its walls would be not far short of 4,000 miles long. That's BIG! Archeological investigations fail to confirm these figures, as already noted.

 

[kmortis]

Nor is my question about you personal beliefs or opinions. Rather, it is about whether the Book of Jonah is homiletic fiction or historical fact. You have asserted the latter. That being the case, the following is of great importance:

1) We have the remains of Nineveh. The city was about 5 kilometers at its widest dimension.

2) As an avid hiker, I can tell you that an adult can walk about 15 miles in one day. Thus, a city that would take three days to cross on foot would be about 45 miles across

3) Since 1 mile = 1.609344 kilometers, or, to round off, about 1.6 kilometers, a city 45 mile across at its widest point would have to be a bit over 70 kilometers wide.

4) Since Nineveh, at 5 K, was only 1/14th. of that 70 kilometers, the dimensions given in the Book of Jonah are hardly historical.

There are a number of possible explanations for this. One is that the Book of Jonah was historical, but full of excessive exaggeration. Of course, such exaggeration would cast some doubt on its historicity. Another explanation is that the Book of Jonah was not historically true, but was instead a fictional work meant to teach a moral lesson, much as were the parables of Jesus.

My question for you is this: If you accept the Book of Jonah as an historical account, how do you reconcile the dimensions of the city given in it with dimensions of Nineveh we know from its physical remains?

Please don't dodge this question.

Surely Tim, a scholar of your caliber has heard of the Nineva Hurdle Company, Inc. They had a booming business until Babylon declared hurdles illegal. So there they were with all this stock just lining the streets...

 

[Lrrr]

Kindly add me to the list of unbelievers that in the Google List of Prophecies (GLoP).

 

[Rincewind]

Kindly add me to the list of unbelievers that in the Google List of Prophecies (GLoP).

I've taken a look at the GLoP - and...

Please add me too - I'm a gloppist! (or is that a glopper?)

 

[Nay_Sayer]

You can add me to the list of people who think the OT is largely made up of incoherent gibberish.

 

[TimCallahan]

DOC: I'll give you a break. Let's say that Jonah, being exhausted from his journey inside the whale, could only make 5 miles a day instead of 15. Since a mile is roughly 1.6 kilometers, 5 X 1.6 = 8.0 kilometers a day. Thus, a city three days journey across would be 3 X 8 = 24 kilometers in width. However, Nineveh was, at best, 4 or 5 Km at its widest point. Thus, even if we make this adjustment, the city is only about 1/6 to 1/5 the size it ahould be, according to the Book of Jonah. Oh, and lest you try to accuse me not giving a source for these measurements, it's here.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Perhaps Jonah was the Hebrew word for "krill," explaining both his slow gait and his time in the whale before being sicked up

 

[zooterkin]

ok lets try another approach
Jonah who is deposited on the shore of the Mediteranean by the "great fish" makes it to Nineveh in 24 hrs

Going back to this, where does it say that Jonah got to Nineveh in 24 hours?

Jonah 2:
10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

Jonah 3:
1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,

2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

 

[Mudcat]

So you don't believe any of these[prophecies in a google list] came true?
No:19

Not to pick nits or anything but please consider that according to the English grammatical rule of the double negative that could be read as everyone listed after that part believes that the prophecies came came true.

 

[Wildy]

Are we sure that the Nineveh passage is about the size of the city? I guess I'm reading the passage wrong because I would have thought that it was saying that the city was three days away from wherever Jonah was at the time. But if that's right then it just raises even more questions.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.

Putting it that way, it sounds like Nineveh was three days away, not three days across.

Also, I hate to seem like an apologist, but the city of Jacksonville, FL is not a very big city, yet as I recall it takes up all of the county that it's in, making it technically huge.

Still, it's this very vagueness of the bible that makes its meaning malleable enough to fit nearly any interpretation.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

For those interested in the factual history of Nineveh, Dan Carlin did an episode of his excellent podcast, "Hardcore History" titled "Judgment at Nineveh".

Description: “Will our modern society ever decline and fall? Dan uses that idea as a backdrop for a look at the first great empire in history, the biblical-era Assyrians. Were they ancient Nazis, or the guardians of civilization?”

Free when first issued, now $1.99 but well worth it.

http://dancarlin.com/dccart/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=143

 

[Craig B]

Putting it that way, it sounds like Nineveh was three days away, not three days across

That's not how the Biblical translators generally interpret the passage. See posts #1757 and #1758.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

That's not how the Biblical translators generally interpret the passage.

OK, but to repeat: why wouldn't the inspired word of God be just a tad less ambiguous?

 

[dafydd]

OK, but to repeat: why wouldn't the inspired word of God be just a tad less ambiguous?

One would expect that. Perhaps this god fella had other things on his mind at the time.

 

[zooterkin]

OK, but to repeat: why wouldn't the inspired word of God be just a tad less ambiguous?

Well, that is the KJV, and the phrasing was probably not ambiguous at the time, especially in context. (Jonah went to Nineveh, as instructed; then we talk about the size of the place. Then verse 4 talks about entering a day's journey into the city, implying that it takes more than one day to get through, which reinforces verse 3 as referring to the size of the place, not how far it was from where Jonah started.)

I'm interested in hearing from Marduk where he got the "390 miles in a day" from. We had an interesting digression about marching rates, but it seems it may not have been sparked by anything relevant to this thread. Partly my fault, as I just looked at the figures in his post, and didn't check back to see what he was basing them on, and I should have known better.

 

[Wildy]

OK, but to repeat: why wouldn't the inspired word of God be just a tad less ambiguous?

I think this cartoon pretty much explains everything: