Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Dan O.]

Totally nuts!

Maybe they are seeking to show brain damage.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Maybe they are seeking to show brain damage.

Too funny.

 

[Dan O.]

Of course, the prosecution could counter that it was a pre-existing condition given the slurred speech of the 911 call and the inability to provide simple directions in a neighborhood where he had lived for two years.

 

[Dan O.]

No one ever claimed there was a near-fatal beating, and the statute requires no such thing either.

That you grasp desperately at such straws is indicative that you fully understand the weakness of your position.

Could you please show how you are interpreting this statute as applied to this event?

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.​

 

[leftysergeant]

Could you please show how you are interpreting this statute as applied to this event?

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant​

Seems to me doofus blew any right to claim self-defense on the basis of (2)(a) by not telling Martin that he was Neighborhood Watch, which could have somewhat defused the situation or, conversely, made it clear that Martin did not care.

If Z later claims to have told Martin that he was Neighborhood Watch, but there is no record of his having stated so earlier, I would take it as a lie and an indication that he is confabulating some, if not all, aspects of his confrontation with Martin.​

 

[Dan O.]

If Z later claims to have told Martin that he was Neighborhood Watch, but there is no record of his having stated so earlier, I would take it as a lie and an indication that he is confabulating some, if not all, aspects of his confrontation with Martin.

What happened to the claim being pushed in this thread that there was no neighborhood watch?

 

[leftysergeant]

What happened to the claim being pushed in this thread that there was no neighborhood watch?

Apparently, the Home Owners' Association stated in their newsletter that questions rel;ated to physical security and such should be taken up with Z. Thug boy Taaffe also identifies Z as NW.

Why didn't the punk identify himself to Martin as such?

 

[sgtbaker]

Even putting the laughably inappropriate sources for the photos aside, the whole motif of the website is offensively self-aggrandizing. An American flag backdrop? "Long Live Zimmerman"?

Did he not have time to photoshop himself onto Mount Rushmore?

This, I whole heartedly agree with you, on. He's not some reluctant hero, taking on a cause.

 

[sgtbaker]

Could you please show how you are interpreting this statute as applied to this event?

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.​

I am not a lawyer but I think GZ's attorney is going on the highlighted aspect. He could change or I could be misinterpreting his statements but he brought up examples of deadly brain injuries and has been keeping focus on the head wound. You don't actually have to sustain any serious damage, you just have to be reasonably in fear of such damage.

 

[Information Analyst]

As I recall, the claim was that Zimmerman went to the next street looking for a house number, not a street sign. He then turned around and was headed back to his truck along this path when Martin jumped out from a hiding place and attacked him.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/218314f82d4fa513de.jpg[/qimg]

Where did Martin hide?

There are clearly plenty of obstacles and cover that would provide temporary/superficial cover in early evening/low light conditions.

 

[Dancing David]

Most likely not. But, still, nonetheless, the entire sentence doesn't make sense.

Cheers!

Sometimes whole posts of mine don't make sense!

 

[Dancing David]

That's right, I forgot. Zimmerman was in imminent danger of being killed or receiving great bodily harm, a fact we can ascertain by how quickly he was rushed to the hospital to treat his incredibly serious injuries.

"reasonable expectation of great bodily harm" is not the same as "did receive great bodily harm", having head beat on concrete may create one without the other.

I am no fan of GZ but the legal process is there.

 

[Dancing David]

http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12101/1223047-84.stm

Some interesting tidbits:

It is not surprising that the charge would not be 'first degree murder' is it? Most of the bars for that have not been crossed.

 

[Information Analyst]

Anyone who watches that women talk for more than 60 seconds in that so-called interview and doesn't immediately dismiss her as a relevant "witness" is probably the same type of person that believes Ed Primeau's "minds eye" "voice is a symphony" identification of TM as the screamer.

As an aside, I'm a little uncomfortable with the stress that is being put on such admittedly florid descriptions, as if they count as solid evidence about or against anything. After all, it's not like we've never heard such lyrical descriptions being used by mathematicians, scientists, etc., in their fields, is it?

 

[sgtbaker]

What happened to the claim being pushed in this thread that there was no neighborhood watch?

The claim is, there was no official Neighborhood Watch program and GZ was not patrolling as unofficial Neighbor Watch when he made the call. You are free to believe or disbelieve that.

 

[Dan O.]

I am not a lawyer but I think GZ's attorney is going on the highlighted aspect. He could change or I could be misinterpreting his statements but he brought up examples of deadly brain injuries and has been keeping focus on the head wound. You don't actually have to sustain any serious damage, you just have to be reasonably in fear of such damage.

It seams that George can make up any story he wants to say he was in fear for his life now that he's killed the one witness that had the best view of what was hapening.

 

[Beerina]

The statues previously cited in this thread

Mt. Rushmore, e.g.

 

[Dan O.]

The claim is, there was no official Neighborhood Watch program and GZ was not patrolling as unofficial Neighbor Watch when he made the call. You are free to believe or disbelieve that.

Is that your claim? How dies the notice of the next neighborhood watch meeting scheduled for March 29th affect that claim? How does Zimmerman's previous 911 call referencing the neighborhood watch meeting with a police officer the previous day affect the claim?

 

[Beerina]

It seams that George can make up any story he wants to say he was in fear for his life now that he's killed the one witness that had the best view of what was hapening.

Not any story -- it must be consistent with data from the limited eyewitnesses and the forensic facts.

 

[crimresearch]

A few days later but I felt I had to respond to this.

I misspoke, not my cousin. What I SHOULD have said was confidential, not sealed. He said confidential and I used the wrong word. Sorry for the confusion. You are correct that TM's parents could not have them sealed.

Ahhh, my misunderstanding. 'Sealed' has a specific weight in court, whereas government agencies in general should keep juvenile information confidential.