Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Anyone who watches that women talk for more than 60 seconds in that so-called interview and doesn't immediately dismiss her as a relevant "witness" is probably the same type of person that believes Ed Primeau's "minds eye" "voice is a symphony" identification of TM as the screamer. She saw nothing as it was happening, and her statements about what she *thinks* she heard (now that she's read the media reports) are the types of statements that won't even be allowed in a courtroom. You don't get to go into court and say "I know it was the little boy because the screams stopped after the gun shot" any more than you get to say "I know it was GZ because the screams stopped after the gun shot".

 

[sgtbaker]

Anyone who watches that women talk for more than 60 seconds in that so-called interview and doesn't immediately dismiss her as a relevant "witness" is probably the same type of person that believes Ed Primeau's "minds eye" "voice is a symphony" identification of TM as the screamer. She saw nothing as it was happening, and her statements about what she *thinks* she heard (now that she's read the media reports) are the types of statements that won't even be allowed in a courtroom. You don't get to go into court and say "I know it was the little boy because the screams stopped after the gun shot" any more than you get to say "I know it was GZ because the screams stopped after the gun shot".

Well there goes my theory!

 

[curi0us]

I've just watched the two interviews with Cutcher and if one separates out what Cutcher actually saw from her uninformed speculation she is actually a great witness for Zimmerman.

Some quotes from an the Anderson Cooper interview with Cutcher and Lamilla:

When she called to him three times, everything okay, what’s going on? Each time he looked back, didn’t say anything and then the third time he finally said, ‘just call the police.’”

“But at that time it was so dark,” Lamilla added. “I just saw this person. When she started calling the police, I saw Zimmerman walking with — touching like his hair, like kind of like confused back and forth to the body.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anderson-cooper-interviews-witnesses-to-trayvon-martin-shooting/

^The video is more descriptive then typed words since Cutcher's does a physical acting out of Zimmerman's looking back but not saying anything that makes it seem very weird. Both Lamilla and Cutcher also physically make the gesture of touching their own heads while describing the way Zimmerman was acting after the shooting.

Cutcher and Lamilla, March 25, 2012

“It sounded young. It didn’t sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine,” Mary Cutcher told Dateline NBC’s Lester Holt in an interview scheduled to air Sunday night.

Snip

“He started walking back and forth like three times with his hand on the head and kind of, he was walking like kind of confused,” she said.
Lamilla said he was touching his head like “he was in shock.”
http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com...s-parents-say-he-was-headed-on-the-right-path

If Zimmerman was the one screaming for help:

There is a fair chance the high pitched whine is related to a serious blow to his head. He very well could have been concussed at that point where he was still conscious but at diminished capacity. The description of him looking at the people calling to him but not responding, and then walking around confused fits perfectly with a person suffering from a mild concussion. The touching of the head that both Cutcher and Lamilla demonstrate is actually better evidence of head injury to me then anything else I've seen. Cuts can be minor, but repeatedly touching a wound is good indication it is bothering a person.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

She is just full of theories isn't she? Most of which seem to come straight out of things she has read in the media. For instance, she says she thinks the police protected him "because he's in classes to be a police officer".

 

[Peephole]

Good news: armed racists will now be patrolling the streets of Sanford. I guess they plan on protecting black people from, uhm, armed racists patrolling the streets of Sanford.

Neo-Nazis say they are conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida, and are "prepared" for violence in case of a race riot. The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says. "We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."

...

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php

 

[sgtbaker]

Good news: armed racists will now be patrolling the streets of Sanford. I guess they plan on protecting black people from, uhm, armed racists patrolling the streets of Sanford.

This is starting to feel like a bad remake of the scene outside the courtroom, in A Time To Kill.

 

[crimresearch]

Good news: armed racists will now be patrolling the streets of Sanford. I guess they plan on protecting black people from, uhm, armed racists patrolling the streets of Sanford.

So if all 10 to 20 of them are busy 'patrolling', who did they get to fill in for them on Jerry Springer?

 

[johnny karate]

From the "Black Mob Attacks White Guy" thread:

No one has substantiated Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. If you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it in the thread discussing the Trayvon Martin case.

It was posted eons ago. It is just as substantiated as most of the "known" facts. The police allude to the witness, he has been called "John" and is not interested in talking to the media.

It is the central reason the guy is not in jail, and without this witness and injuries he most certainty would be.

Honestly its just not a very interesting case with the details . . . so I understand the media ignoring the details.

The statement (at least the one released) by "John" does not corroborate Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. It only establishes that there was an altercation that Zimmerman might have been losing at the time. It tells us nothing about how the altercation started. If Zimmerman initiated it, his claim of self-defense goes out the window.

Sigh . . no he wasn't. He was sent home after an 8 hour investigation where witness where asked what they saw and the accounts matched his description. He was taken into custody while this was sorted out. One witness even saw the events just prior to the shooting in which Zimmerman was being viciously beaten and crying for help. He walked outside saw two men struggling, the one on top was in white, and the one on the bottom was wearing red. The neighbor yelled for them to stop, then went inside to call 911. Moments later the shot rang out.

If this story was just, guy shoots teen, says it was self defense then I would be just as outraged at him not being arrested, but it is much more than that.

The lack of details is what makes this a good sell by the media, with more details it becomes pretty typical, dude is attacked cries for help, no one helps, he shoots attacker in struggle for gun. News at 11.

I've highlighted the details that you've completely manufactured as they assume facts not in evidence.

It amazes me how this innocent skittles carrying young black kid killed by evil white neighborhood watch bozo narrative just wont die regardless of the facts.

And yet the narrative you offered is quite fact deficient in its own right. And it seems to overlook rather inconvenient facts like the one that tells us the last documented account prior to the altercation indicates Martin was running away while Zimmerman pursued him with a gun.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

So if all 10 to 20 of them are busy 'patrolling', who did they get to fill in for them on Jerry Springer?

Priceless!

 

[Puppycow]

BREAKING: George Zimmerman Launches Website, Features Vandalized Black Cultural Center

On the website — therealgeorgezimmerman.com — Zimmerman solicits donations to support his “living expenses and legal defense.” He writes: “I have created a Paypal account solely linked on this website as I would like to provide an avenue to thank my supporters personally and ensure that any funds provided are used only for living expenses and legal defense, in lieu of my forced inability to maintain employment. I will also personally, maintain accountability of all funds received.”

He also features a photo of a vandalized black cultural center at Ohio State University.

The other photo featured on Zimmerman’s website is from a rally held by Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones.

 

[triforcharity]

I am not considering it an attack, just saying there are possible grounds and reasons this individual will not testify.

Most likely not. But, still, nonetheless, the entire sentence doesn't make sense.

Cheers!

 

[Newtons Bit]

BREAKING: George Zimmerman Launches Website, Features Vandalized Black Cultural Center

The whois makes me somewhat skeptical.

 

[crimresearch]

From the "Black Mob Attacks White Guy" thread:




The statement (at least the one released) by "John" does not corroborate Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. It only establishes that there was an altercation that Zimmerman might have been losing at the time. It tells us nothing about how the altercation started. If Zimmerman initiated it, his claim of self-defense goes out the window.



I've highlighted the details that you've completely manufactured as they assume facts not in evidence.



And yet the narrative you offered is quite fact deficient in its own right. And it seems to overlook rather inconvenient facts like the one that tells us the last documented account prior to the altercation indicates Martin was running away while Zimmerman pursued him with a gun.

Speaking of manufactured... your assertion that any person has no self defense standing if they 'started it' has been debunked repeatedly.

 

[Puppycow]

The whois makes me somewhat skeptical.

CNN and NBC have statements from his attorneys confirming that it's him.

 

[crimresearch]

CNN and NBC have statements from his attorneys confirming that it's him.

NBC has statements from attorneys confirming that www.zimmermandefense.com is him.

A website to raise money for Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman will be hitting the Internet soon, as his family looks to fund his legal defense and cover their living expenses, his attorneys said.

The website "www.zimmermandefense.com" wasn't live early Friday morning and no launch time was specified

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/George...nse-in-Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-146418425.html

 

[johnny karate]

Speaking of manufactured... your assertion that any person has no self defense standing if they 'started it' has been debunked repeatedly.

That's right, I forgot. Zimmerman was in imminent danger of being killed or receiving great bodily harm, a fact we can ascertain by how quickly he was rushed to the hospital to treat his incredibly serious injuries.

 

[johnny karate]

BREAKING: George Zimmerman Launches Website, Features Vandalized Black Cultural Center

He also features a photo of a vandalized black cultural center at Ohio State University.

The other photo featured on Zimmerman’s website is from a rally held by Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones.

Even putting the laughably inappropriate sources for the photos aside, the whole motif of the website is offensively self-aggrandizing. An American flag backdrop? "Long Live Zimmerman"?

Did he not have time to photoshop himself onto Mount Rushmore?

 

[crimresearch]

That's right, I forgot. Zimmerman was in imminent danger of being killed or receiving great bodily harm, a fact we can ascertain by how quickly he was rushed to the hospital to treat his incredibly serious injuries.

And of course that strawman has nothing to do with what you claimed, what I said, or how the law works.

Do you have anything that is either correct or useful? Do you intend to move on from playing word games to actual discourse using facts?

 

[crimresearch]

Even putting the laughably inappropriate sources for the photos aside, the whole motif of the website is offensively self-aggrandizing. An American flag backdrop? "Long Live Zimmerman"?

Did he not have time to photoshop himself onto Mount Rushmore?

Fell for it, did you? Even after the facts were posted?

 

[johnny karate]

And of course that strawman has nothing to do with what you claimed, what I said, or how the law works.

The statues previously cited in this thread seem to pretty clearly indicate justification is not available to someone who provokes the use of force "unless such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger".

When I previously stated Zimmerman's self-defense claim goes out the window if it can be determined he instigated the altercation, I forgot we were still pretending he was the victim of a near-fatal beating. Mea culpa.

Do you have anything that is either correct or useful? Do you intend to move on from playing word games to actual discourse using facts?

Please stop personalizing the discussion. It's a violation of forum rules and only adds unnecessary hostility to an already heated topic.