Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[TheL8Elvis]

You have that all wrong. GZ is a pussy because he has to carry a gun in his pants to augment his manliness.

As to whether he lied about who was screaming, that can still be tested if he wasn't such a pussy and accepted to give a comparative voice sample.

I'm going to have a difficult time taking your future posts seriously after reading nonsense like this.

 

[WildCat]

I would think that George Zimmerman would be eager to have the claims of this software tested. Has George or his lawyer ever proposed testing? I don't think Owen could refuse that request.

Why does Owen need Zimmerman to test his snake oil?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I would think that George Zimmerman would be eager to have the claims of this software tested. Has George or his lawyer ever proposed testing? I don't think Owen could refuse that request.

Why would GZ be eager to try his case in the court of public opinion ?

GZ hasn't been charged with anything. GZ has already stated it was he who was screaming. Witnesses have corroborated his story. Why would he be worried about untested software that makes outlandish claims ?

 

[Dan O.]

All the facts confirm is that prior to the altercation, Martin was running away while Zimmerman followed him.

One of two things happened afterward: 1) Either Zimmerman continued to follow Martin and caught up to him, or 2) Zimmerman immediately halted his pursuit and began to walk back to his truck, while simultaneously Martin stopped running away and instead turned around to pursue and attack Zimmerman.

I guess it's up to each of us to decide for ourselves which scenario seems more plausible.

You certainly make a good case in the first paragraph for 2 happening. He [Trayvon] very well could have been just "acting accordingly."

You both are ignoring one important fact: the altercation did not occur on the path that George claims he took and where he would be if he were simply returning to his truck as he claimed.

 

[crimresearch]

Any case for a child/young person below the age of 18 is automatically sealed. How did you not know that? I didn't pull that out of thin air.

First, that is incorrect. Information on juvenile criminals is often released. It is public record regardless of age.

"There's the myth, and it's serious, because many do think that when you're a juvenile, you're in delinquency court and everything is secret and nobody is going to find out," Palm Beach County Chief Assistant Public Defender Barbara White said. "That is the furthest thing from the truth."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/c...fenders-in-2287956.html?cxtype=rss_crime_1341

Shawn Tyson, 17, received two mandatory and consecutive life sentences after being convicted of two counts of first-degree murder, said Dennis Menendez, chief information officer for the 12th Judicial Circuit.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-28/...-deaths-death-penalty-sentences?_s=PM:JUSTICE

In 1996, at age 13, Orshal raped a 10-year-old girl and attempted to rape a 15-year-old girl. He was given probation, but he cut off his ankle monitor. That landed him in a juvenile detention facility.
After his release, he moved to New York. He was arrested there in 2001, at age 18, for having nonconsensual sex with a 15-year-old girl. He pleaded to sexual misconduct and received probation.
Those three previous crimes were misdemeanors.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...will-be-detained-under-jimmy-ryce-act/1221379

Individual cases can be sealed.

Second, that isn't what was claimed. The claim was that Trayvon's parents filed an injunction to force the court to seal criminal records *and* to seal school records.

That isn't the way it works, 18 or not.

How could you and your legal expert not know that?

 

[sgtbaker]

You both are ignoring one important fact: the altercation did not occur on the path that George claims he took and where he would be if he were simply returning to his truck as he claimed.

Not even remotely. I can speculate on possibilities, if you like.

 

[Dan O.]

Why would GZ be eager to try his case in the court of public opinion ?

We already are trying his case here.

 

[Dan O.]

Not even remotely. I can speculate on possibilities, if you like.

So, in your speculation, how did George get to the place where he shot Trayvon?

 

[WildCat]

You both are ignoring one important fact: the altercation did not occur on the path that George claims he took and where he would be if he were simply returning to his truck as he claimed.

You know the path "George claims he took"?

Link? Cite?

Oh, of course not. Just based on your ignorant speculation, correct?

 

[sgtbaker]

So, in your speculation, how did George get to the place where he shot Trayvon?

I said there were multiple possibilities. Martin could have gone down the intersecting path, towards his house, while Zimmerman went straight, towards the road with the back entrance. He could have been walking back towards his car or he could have been walking back to check that path for Martin. Then, Martin could have back tracked just to see if Zimmerman was still following him or Martin could have backtracked to confront Zimmerman on why he was following him. Zimmerman could have seen Martin on the way back (whether he was searching that path or heading back to his truck) and approached Martin, either to simply ask him what he was doing there or demand to know what he was doing there, with the attempt to physically restrain him. Or, Zimmerman could have been walking back and not seen Martin but Martin called out to Zimmerman, "why are you following me?"
Or the confrontation could have initially occured at the intersection of the two sidewalks. Perhaps getting hit caused Zimmerman to stumble back a few feet before falling or, in the girlfriend's version, she heard what sounded like wresting. Perhaps the struggled on their feet for a few seconds, moving about, before taking the fight to the ground. The fight, as far as I understand, happened behind the corner townhouse. That's what I got from the maps and could be entirely wrong.

 

[Dan O.]

You know the path "George claims he took"?

Link? Cite?

Oh, of course not. Just based on your ignorant speculation, correct?

Let's keep it civil please.


I believe it was recently posted in this thread that George's father was present when the police had George walk through what happened the day after the shooting. The father reported what he saw. I'm sure I could find that link for you if you can't find it yourself.

 

[johnny karate]

All these "mays" and having no idea how the person may react certainly strengthens my point that one is not a mind reader.

I don't see how acknowledging Zimmerman is not a mind-reader strengthens your point over mine. Zimmerman had no idea what he was getting into when he foolishly stepped out of his car to pursue someone he thought to be a criminal. Him not being a mind-reader is exactly my point.

According to Zimmerman, he was running towards the back exit. That could have been enough to give Zimmerman the impression that he was not looking for a confrontation. That is my only point.

Zimmerman also had the impression that "something's wrong with [Martin]". I'm not sure how wise it is to give any credence to the "impressions" Zimmerman might have had.

You certainly make a good case in the first paragraph for 2 happening. He [Trayvon] very well could have been just "acting accordingly."

Yeah, he did "act accordingly". He ran away.

 

[Dan O.]

The fight, as far as I understand, happened behind the corner townhouse. That's what I got from the maps and could be entirely wrong.

The best reference I've seen was from a local new reporter that interviewed one of the witnesses. The video report placed the final position behind the second apartment of the first building from the cut-through.

 

[johnny karate]

GZ has already stated it was he who was screaming. Witnesses have corroborated his story.

And some witnesses have contradicted his story.

We probably shouldn't trot out the "witnesses have corroborated" canard without mentioning that.

Seems a bit dishonest.

 

[WildCat]

Let's keep it civil please.


I believe it was recently posted in this thread that George's father was present when the police had George walk through what happened the day after the shooting. The father reported what he saw. I'm sure I could find that link for you if you can't find it yourself.

Another evidence-free post from Dan!

 

[WildCat]

And some witnesses have contradicted his story.

You mean the witnesses who didn't actually see it, like Cutcher?

 

[johnny karate]

You mean the witnesses who didn't actually see it, like Cutcher?

Immediately after the gunshot, Cutcher and her roommate reported seeing Martin face-down with Zimmerman straddling him two to three doors down from where the fight was reported to have taken place.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/neighbor-trayvon-martin-shooting-wasnt-self-defense/

Remind me again, how does that fit into Zimmerman's narrative?

 

[Moss]

I'm getting a bit confused about which witnesses saw what. And who actually kept to their initial testimony.

 

[Kestrel]

Robert Zimmerman described the path his son took in an interview:

Even though a dispatcher told George Zimmerman not to follow Martin, his father said his son continued his pursuit to locate an address to give to police. "He lost sight of the individual, he continued to walk down the same sidewalk to the next street, so he could get an address for the police," he said. "He went to the next street, realized where he was and was walking to his vehicle.

Looking at a map of the subdivision, it's clear that Zimmerman is talking about walking the path between two streets, then backtracking to get back to this truck. The sidewalk is clearly visible on Google's photo of the area.

The problem is that Trayvon's body wasn't found along that sidewalk. It was along the sidewalk heading south. The walk leading directly to where Trayvon was staying.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm getting a bit confused about which witnesses saw what. And who actually kept to their initial testimony.

That's my point. No clear narrative can be elicited from the body of witness accounts, so it's disingenuous to use it selectively as a factual basis for drawing conclusions.