Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

The problem is that Florida law explicitly reversed the traditional burden of proof in self defense cases.

The pistol packing guy with a history of anger management problems is assumed to be a defenseless victim. The teenager without a violent history is assumed to have violently assaulted the pistol packer to the point where his only option was deadly force. Unless the state can prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman will walk. And in a further insult to Trayvon Martin's family, Zimmerman will also be immune from any civil lawsuit.

You really enjoy making up these complete fabrications about the law, don't you?

 

[Noztradamus]

Why, instead of going the final few hundred feet to the safety of home ?
~~~

And possibly show the creepy stalker the actual house where he and his younger brother will be alone?

Maybe he didn't want to go home until he was SURE he has lost his pursuer

 

[Mumbles]

Why, instead of going the final few hundred feet to the safety of home ?

who knows? Maybe he didn't want to lead Zimmerman to his house. Maybe he was just resting. Maybe he thought Zimmerman wasn't dumb enough to chase him on foot. It strikes me as irrelevant.

And TMs parents have made false statements. And their attorney has made false statements. Obviously , we can trust no one about anything.

Martin isn't really on trial, being dead and all...

 

[crimresearch]

One thing I happen to wonder about: does trying to keep someone from their gun look like going for their gun for that someone?

It could, very easily.

 

[johnny karate]

So if Zimmermen was screaming for help (for over a minute) while Martin was beating him up who is the aggressor?

As has been pointed out numerous times it depends on who started the fight.

Even if the above is true, it tells us nothing about who was the aggressor. It doesn't even tell us how serious the fight was. That Zimmerman was crying for help doesn't necessarily mean his life was in danger. It could just mean he's a pussy.

 

[johnny karate]

So if you follow someone and don't accurately predict their response, no matter what, you are resonsible?

As pertains to your own safety, yes.

If I get into a car accident I didn't cause that sends me through the windshield, the guy who hit me is definitely at fault for causing the accident, but I only have myself to blame for not wearing my seat belt.

Rational, responsible adults take the necessary precautions to avoid or mitigate dangerous situations.

What Zimmerman did was neither rational nor responsible.

 

[nadsat]

The problem is that Florida law explicitly reversed the traditional burden of proof in self defense cases.

The pistol packing guy with a history of anger management problems is assumed to be a defenseless victim. The teenager without a violent history is assumed to have violently assaulted the pistol packer to the point where his only option was deadly force. Unless the state can prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman will walk. And in a further insult to Trayvon Martin's family, Zimmerman will also be immune from any civil lawsuit.

I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."

There gotta be a reason the Martin's and their lawyer filed an injunction to seal Trayvon's school and criminal records right?

 

[sgtbaker]

If you follow someone you think is a criminal, and expect such a person to not react, you are being criminally stupid, yes.

No. You are not responsible for predicting another person's behavior. Following someone does not equal aggressor and it doesn't even address the possibility that when the confrontation occured, he was no longer following him.

 

[Chris L]

I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."

There gotta be a reason the Martin's and their lawyer filed an injunction to seal Trayvon's school and criminal records right?

Speaking for myself, I've never pushed an cop or got into a fight with my ex-fiance ever. That Zimmerman has does not reflect well on his anger management skills.

 

[johnny karate]

I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."

I like how you don't interpret someone failing to manage their anger as an anger management problem.

There gotta be a reason the Martin's and their lawyer filed an injunction to seal Trayvon's school and criminal records right?

First of all, Martin isn't the one facing possible criminal charges. He's the victim.

Secondly... what?

... authorities confirmed to the Associated Press that Martin did not have a juvenile offender record.

 

[nadsat]

I read that in an article somewhere that I can't find now. It's possible they were wrong and retracted.

 

[Noztradamus]

I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."
~~~

Fired as a bouncer for excessive force.
Chased another motorist in a road rage incident.

How many isolated actions qualify for a history? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[This is The End]

Trayvon Martin case: George Zimmerman’s lawyer invokes ‘Shaken Baby Syndrome’ as defense

OK so the title of the article was even worse than Z bringing up SBS.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

who knows? Maybe he didn't want to lead Zimmerman to his house. Maybe he was just resting. Maybe he thought Zimmerman wasn't dumb enough to chase him on foot. It strikes me as irrelevant.

Of course it does.

Martin isn't really on trial, being dead and all...

Zimmerman isn't on trial, either. I assume you agree TM family and attorney are as unreliable as the SPD and GZ attorney,correct ?

 

[This is The End]

You've gotten a lot of your questions answered with good facts.

If they aren't the answers you wanted to hear, that isn't because people aren't telling you correctly.

There are no answers I wanted to hear except for the correct one. I tried to make a scenario that had a clear answer of yes or no. I assume I failed.

 

[johnny karate]

No. You are not responsible for predicting another person's behavior. Following someone does not equal aggressor...

But it's certainly not benign behavior, either. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine someone feeling threatened at the idea of someone else following them around. And as the follower, you have no idea what the mental state is of the person you are following. Maybe they won't care or notice, and will just go about their business. Maybe they will feel intimidated or cornered and respond accordingly.

Either way, that's a risk you are taking by choosing to follow them in the first place.

...and it doesn't even address the possibility that when the confrontation occured, he was no longer following him.

All the facts confirm is that prior to the altercation, Martin was running away while Zimmerman followed him.

One of two things happened afterward: 1) Either Zimmerman continued to follow Martin and caught up to him, or 2) Zimmerman immediately halted his pursuit and began to walk back to his truck, while simultaneously Martin stopped running away and instead turned around to pursue and attack Zimmerman.

I guess it's up to each of us to decide for ourselves which scenario seems more plausible.

 

[crimresearch]

Speaking for myself, I've never pushed an cop or got into a fight with my ex-fiance ever. That Zimmerman has does not reflect well on his anger management skills.

Originally Posted by nadsat
I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."

There gotta be a reason the Martin's and their lawyer filed an injunction to seal Trayvon's school and criminal records right?

That's a fascinating bit of legal commentary there... How exactly does that work?

How do you get 'an injunction' to seal the criminal records of *another person*? An injunction against whom? The court?

Or how do you 'seal' public school records more than they already are protected by FERPA?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

And possibly show the creepy stalker the actual house where he and his younger brother will be alone?

Maybe he didn't want to go home until he was SURE he has lost his pursuer

Instead, confront or attack the creepy stalker ? That makes sense to you ?

 

[johnny karate]

Zimmerman isn't on trial, either. I assume you agree TM family and attorney are as unreliable as the SPD and GZ attorney,correct ?

The important distinction is that the Martin family can only offer speculation. The factual details are supposed to come from Zimmerman, as he is the only one who can provide them.

If a representative for the Martin family tells us something incorrect about what happened, that is merely inaccurate speculation. If a representative for Zimmerman tells us something incorrect, that is a falsehood.

 

[This is The End]

I like how you interpret a guy who once pushed an undercover alcohol agent when he was young and drunk and got in a fight with is exfiance has "a history of anger management problems."

Don't forget he had to complete an anger management course for that and also got fired from a job for anger issues.

It could be brought up to establish a pattern of rash behavior.

It appears that the:

The court ordered Zimmerman to attend anger management classes.

...from the arrest with the confrontation with police was before he got fired for excessive anger (if the Mother Jones report turns out to be true).

George Zimmerman, Trayvon martin's shooter, was fired from a 2005 job as a security guard for excessive aggression, a former co-worker told the New York Daily News Thursday. The paper reports that Zimmerman had worked on and off for several firms that "provided security to illegal house parties."

So obviously the anger management classes didn't work very well!


Also how can a firm "provide security to illegal parties"??? Wouldn't that be illegal?