Merged nuclear power safe?

[shadron]

"The authors believe that this may reflect the fact that many species in the most contaminated regions of Chernobyl have now almost completely disappeared."

Yep, a tsunami sure messed up them birds there.

Well, we certainly do enjoy reading the delightful articles from enenews.com (like this one: "Why Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl; “Now the truth is coming out” — 72,000 times worse than Hiroshima & 1 million+ cancer deaths, says professorhttp://enenews.com/independent-why-...oshima-1-million-cancer-deaths-says-professor August 29, 2011"). When do we get to read the evidence from a journal? Do you think they'll be "believ[ing] that this may reflect" in the journal article as well? Do you think they'll say anything about Chernobyl in the article? No, I don't think so either, but I guess we'll just have to wait to separate the facts from the speculation.

However, it appears that this thread has gone into an area well beyond facts here.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Yep, a tsunami sure messed up them birds there.

First off, Fukushima is nowhere near as bad as Chernobyl.

Second, we know from established authorities in the field of nuclear safety and engineering that the area around Fukushima is safe for human habitation.

Third, did you notice this part of the article you quoted?

In July 2011, the researchers identified and counted birds at 300 locations in Fukushima Prefecture, ranging from 15 to 30 miles from the damaged nuclear complex. Largely still open to human occupation, these areas had external radiation levels from 0.5 to 35 microsieverts per hour.​

They checked only around Fukushima. They can't have reached any scientifically valid conclusions because they didn't also check everywhere else affected by the quake and tsunami.

 

[jimbob]

Any views as to whether TEPCO n particular is a suitable organisation to run nuclear power plants? As opposed to questions of the safety or otherwise of nuclear power from properly controlled organisations?

 

[Corsair 115]

I don't understand your point, Corsair 115.

The point is why didn't you just link to the actual report rather than a summary article from somewhere else which paints the report's contents in alarmist tones? No need to add spin to the data; let the data speak for itself.

Yeah, cause any mention of damage from radiation is like being scared of an oil spill. Just trust the company, the oil/radiation/coal/mercury/(insert pollutant of choice here) isn't really dangerous. And no huge corporation would ever lie about anything like that.

See above. Any time you insist on putting spin on data I'm going to question your reasons for doing so. Let the data speak for itself.

"The authors believe that this MAY reflect the fact that many species in the most contaminated regions of Chernobyl have now almost completely disappeared."

You apparently missed the key word from the quote of the report you offered as to what may be happening around Fukushima. I've emphasized it above.

 

[Dr.Sid]

Birds will be affected heavily by tsunami .. as long as they build nests on the ground and trees. And tsunami hit during spring, and destroyed most of food sources. So any birds who survived, would most probably simply move away.

 

[Aepervius]

Any views as to whether TEPCO n particular is a suitable organisation to run nuclear power plants? As opposed to questions of the safety or otherwise of nuclear power from properly controlled organisations?

They would probably more suitable today to run power plant, because the next management will almost certainly hover on the side of security rather than having a repeat.

 

[a_unique_person]

Any views as to whether TEPCO n particular is a suitable organisation to run nuclear power plants? As opposed to questions of the safety or otherwise of nuclear power from properly controlled organisations?

The answer would have to be no. However, this appears to be much more than just one 'rotten apple'. The problem is the tight links between TEPCO and the legal/political arm of Japanese society, which meant that governance was bad.

 

[jimbob]

Any views as to whether TEPCO n particular is a suitable organisation to run nuclear power plants? As opposed to questions of the safety or otherwise of nuclear power from properly controlled organisations?

They would probably more suitable today to run power plant, because the next management will almost certainly hover on the side of security rather than having a repeat.

One might have thought that, but they already have had a history of organisational failures, the revelation of which haven't prevent subsequent failures. This suggests that the organisation isn't learning.

 

[kowalskil]

First off, Fukushima is nowhere near as bad as Chernobyl. ...

That is true, as far as I know.
.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

More bad news (for the anti-nuke kooks) out of Japan:

One year after Fukushima, independent scientists working for the UN say bluntly that irrational fears of radiation poisoning will cause far more harm than the radiation itself. Not a single individual from the Japanese public received a dangerous dose, according to the early and informal analyses by the scientists. (Conspiracy theories cannot survive against the constant independent radiation measurements uploaded on Twitter.) Even the 70 altruistic plant workers who stayed behind gained an additional cancer risk of just 0.002% -- effectively zero in a country where four out of ten people get cancer.

Unless the anti-nuclear lobby heads to Japan and starts killing people themselves, the mass casualty event they've been hoping and praying for ain't gonna happen.

 

[Belz...]

But... but... it has "nuclear" in it !!!

 

[JihadJane]

'Commission Calls Fukushima Nuclear Crisis a Man-Made Disaster'

""""TOKYO — The nuclear accident at Fukushima was a preventable disaster rooted in government-industry collusion and the worst conformist conventions of Japanese culture, a parliamentary inquiry concluded on Thursday.

The report, released by the Fukushima Nuclear Accident Independent Investigation Commission, also warned that the plant may have been damaged by the earthquake on March 11, 2011, even before the arrival of a tsunami — a worrying concern as the quake-prone country starts to bring its reactor fleet back online.

The commission challenged some of the main story lines that the government and the operator of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant has put forward to explain what went wrong in the early days of the crisis.

“It was a profoundly man-made disaster that could and should have been foreseen and prevented. And its effects could have been mitigated by a more effective human response,” Kiyoshi Kurokawa, the commission’s chairman and the former head of Tokyo University’s Department of Medicine, said in the report’s introduction.""""

[My bold -JJ]

 

[Cuddles]

In other words, if people actually learn the lessons from this disaster (which still hasn't killed anyone), nuclear power could be even safer in the future since much of the problem was due to human errors and not inherent to nuclear power. It's not great news for the people involved since it suggests they weren't doing their jobs properly, but other than that it's nice to hear that one of the safest forms of power generation we have could be even safer.

 

[Puppycow]

Here's the WAPO story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ima-disaster/2012/07/05/gJQAN1OEPW_story.html

“What must be admitted — very painfully – is that this was a disaster ‘Made in Japan,’ ” investigation Chairman Kiyoshi Kurokawa wrote in the introduction to the report. “Its fundamental causes are to be found in the ingrained conventions of Japanese culture: our reflexive obedience; our reluctance to question authority; our devotion to ‘sticking with the program’; our groupism; and our insularity.”

 

[JihadJane]

In other words, if people actually learn the lessons from this disaster (which still hasn't killed anyone),

Lol. Radiation can takes decades to kill people and death isn't the only unpleasant thing in life! How do you plan to ascertain that radiation pollution from Fukushima will have no negative effects on anybody's lives?

....nuclear power could be even safer in the future..,

lol -great advertising speak!

...since much of the problem was due to human errors and not inherent to nuclear power. It's not great news for the people involved since it suggests they weren't doing their jobs properly, but other than that it's nice to hear that one of the safest forms of power generation we have could be even safer.

Nuclear power cannot function without humans.

Earlier in this thread posters were (IIRC) saying how this disaster couldn't be seen as a blot on nuclear power because the exceptional magnitude of natural disasters couldn't have been predicted. They also celebrated how the reactors survived the earthquake. Both arguments have proved to be rubbish.

Here's the WAPO story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ima-disaster/2012/07/05/gJQAN1OEPW_story.html

Of course no other country operating nuclear power could have any similarly disastrous cultural traits such as corruption and cost-cutting, for example...

 

[DC]

Lol. Radiation can takes decades to kill people and death isn't the only unpleasant thing in life! How do you plan to ascertain that radiation pollution from Fukushima will have no negative effects on anybody's lives?





lol -great advertising speak!



Nuclear power cannot function without humans.

Earlier in this thread posters were (IIRC) saying how this disaster couldn't be seen as a blot on nuclear power because the exceptional magnitude of natural disasters couldn't have been predicted. They also celebrated how the reactors survived the earthquake. Both arguments have proved to be rubbish.




Of course no other country operating nuclear power could have any similarly disastrous cultural traits such as corruption and cost-cutting, for example...

oh well when our reactors will be hit by a tsunami i will have alot other things to worry about.

 

[Ziggurat]

Lol. Radiation can takes decades to kill people

You know what else can kill people over decades?

Old age.

Nuclear power cannot function without humans.

That's not actually true. But so what? Lots of things don't function without humans. Given that we live in a society of humans, the fact that some things we make and use for humans also require humans is, well, not that big a deal.

Of course no other country operating nuclear power could have any similarly disastrous cultural traits such as corruption and cost-cutting, for example...

But it wasn't that disastrous. The tsunami itself dwarfed the effects of the nuclear accident it triggered.

 

[Puppycow]

But it wasn't that disastrous. The tsunami itself dwarfed the effects of the nuclear accident it triggered.

Or to look at it from a different angle, it was disastrous in a different way:

The tsunami clearly killed more people, but the nuclear accident rendered a large area uninhabitable for decades, with about 125,000 displaced. It's also made people afraid to buy agricultural products from anywhere in Fukushima or even neighboring prefectures.

 

[a_unique_person]

But it wasn't that disastrous. The tsunami itself dwarfed the effects of the nuclear accident it triggered.

You moved the goal posts. The tsunami was out of our control, as the report shows, the nuclear disaster was entirely within our control. Safety evaluations of the site showed that the pumps were vulnerable to flooding, and nothing was done, even though it would have been relatively inexpensive to remedy.

 

[a_unique_person]

More bad news (for the anti-nuke kooks) out of Japan:



Unless the anti-nuclear lobby heads to Japan and starts killing people themselves, the mass casualty event they've been hoping and praying for ain't gonna happen.

The thing was, when they went in, they had no idea what they were facing. TEPCO was ready to abandon the site, which would have been a disaster, when all along, all it needed was some quick attention to what needed to be done.