Stand Your Ground (licence to kill)?

[Travis]

I've known people who owned guns pretty much all the 50+ years of my life. I've never known any of them to be that irresponsible.

And I hope to never run into someone like that again.

The typical response time to a 911 call appears to be in the 7 to 10 minute range. "Yeah, you just keep at it, buddy. You'll be sorry. The cops are on the way."

Well if he is raping her that would be a good time for a frying pan to the head.

If you honestly think people are advocating "sitting around with a hand cannon wishing someone looks at the house wrong so they can unleash a hail of lead", there's a serious disconnect between reality and your assessment of it.

Yeah this is often a problem between those that wish to murder and those that do not.

You don't think very highly of people who would choose to defend their property rather than watch someone steal it, yet if you caught a thief in the act, you think highly enough of him to ask him to leave. Interesting take, and one which you're certainly entitled to, but...

What makes you think I think highly of the thief? I think of them as a person.

So investigating a crime after it happens means it happened. Past tense. By various estimates, citizens with guns prevent a half million to two million crimes a year from even happening. They could just allow a million more crimes to occur and call the police when it's over. So what, eh?

Yes, so what. So what if those extra crimes occurred. I do not trust the average citizen to be stopping crime. Relying on the police may be imperfect but it sure as hell is better than leaving it to gun crazy foamers looking to satiate their pyschosexual urges to kill things.

Which is why I was ready to attack him if he actually tried to hurt someone. He didn't.

It appears we differ on that point. Rather than viewing it as attacking him, I view it as defending myself.

I never view violence in terms of "defense" even when I attacked my neighbor to stop him from beating his wife I viewed it as an attack by me on him and not me defending her.

It's conceivable a robber would always be armed? So you'd ask him to leave. Interesting, and certainly within your rights to take whatever risk you choose. If you're not comfortable with guns, it's probably best that you don't consider owning one or using one to defend your life, home, family, or property.

Thank you. That was my assessment as well.

But if you want to protect the "bad guys" from the possibility of getting themselves killed in the line of duty, so to speak, maybe working to reduce the number of bad guys would be a good thing to do. Maybe it would be good to convince them that choosing those dangerous activities might get them killed.

Before the program was cut I worked extensively to try and find legitimate work for the poorest most dispossessed in our community. There were also programs for those dealing with meth. We had quite good results. Crime did go down.

You can't address the point, so you just dismiss it. Yeah, that makes your assertions look valid and strong. Guess that tells me the value of trying to debate you any further.

Fine, let's address it. What if criminal A turns out to be a serial killer?

What if the guy who's drunk in the park is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that man littering is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that jaywalker is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

So now you see why I didn't address it.

Travis, you need to start hanging around a better class of person.

QFT. It appears that the home invaders might actually be classier than the 'regular' folks Travis hangs out with.

One of those two people is in Nevada and the other is now dead.

I rather like the calm and law abiding people I hang with now.

I would collect as much information as I safetly could for police.

Excellent. That's what I did as well.

Really, I want you to try this. Go to one of your local gun clubs and start telling people stuff like that as if you did it. Man someone broke in last month and I really showed them. I blasted the hell out of the wall I thought he was behind. then you can do a I hope somebody does break in cause I can't wait to open up on the scumbag with my new Sig.

You need to be quick about it, though cause they're gonna walk off and the second or third time you're gonna meet the Range Master on the way to the parking lot.

Why do I need to try it? My idiot wall shooting friend did that at the NRA and they kicked him out.

 

[The Dark Lord]

No, actually I got that from real life. I had a friend who loved guns. Several times he thought he heard someone in his house and just started shooting bullets through walls. Incredibly he never got in trouble for it. This is the guy I've talked about who wanted a concealed carry license. The state of California wouldn't give him one so he moved to Nevada.

He was the only person I ever knew who legally owned a handgun.

Your friend is a *********** moron. I know a lot of people that own guns, and somehow, none of them have ever behaved as moronically as your friend.

 

[Giz]

Well if he is raping her that would be a good time for a frying pan to the head.

My God. The slapstick guide to home defense.

Step 1: Attempt to disorient the varlet with a custard pie to the face.

Step 2: If he persists, apply a frying pan to the head, "bong".

 

[luchog]

Fine, let's address it. What if criminal A turns out to be a serial killer?

What if the guy who's drunk in the park is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that man littering is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that jaywalker is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

So now you see why I didn't address it.

Because you're completely and disingenuously incapable of refuting a valid point except by creating ludicrous straw-man scenarios based on laughable false-equivalency fallacies? Or did I miss the part in the psychological literature where littering and jaywalking are part of a common escalation path for serial and spree killers? Do you have the slightest clue what you're talking about?

 

[Cylinder]

Excellent. That's what I did as well.

Same scenario, the guy says "Eff you, bitch," and advances toward you?

Why do I need to try it? My idiot wall shooting friend did that at the NRA and they kicked him out.

That would be my experience as well. Shooting at a gun club especially sometimes feels like chaperoning your 10-year-old with her freinds - they're sitting around waiting for one little misstep to pounce. It's nothing like the spray-n-pray strawman that it seems to repeatedly presented.

 

[crimresearch]

So Texas does allow the use of deadly force to protect properly. Otherwise Joe Horn the idiot with a shotgun would have been charged with manslaughter.

The claim made earlier that various Supreme Court cases had found Texas statute 9.42 unconstitutional doesn't hold up.

Why? Because you think it's cute to use the deaths of people to make up strawmen about the actual law, and to keep stamping your feet and denying reality?

 

[GeeMack]

Well if he is raping her that would be a good time for a frying pan to the head.

You could kill someone hitting them in the head with a frying pan.

Yeah this is often a problem between those that wish to murder and those that do not.

That comment seems quite unrelated to anything that is being discussed. Nobody in this conversation wishes to murder. It is dishonest of you to continue with that silly caricature of reality.

What makes you think I think highly of the thief? I think of them as a person.

And again, you are entitled to place whatever value you choose on your life, family, home, and property.

Yes, so what. So what if those extra crimes occurred.

So what if those additional crimes occurred? Yeah, what's a few more rapes, robberies, and murders?

I do not trust the average citizen to be stopping crime. Relying on the police may be imperfect but it sure as hell is better than leaving it to gun crazy foamers looking to satiate their pyschosexual urges to kill things.

It's a good thing that there aren't very many "gun crazy foamers looking to satiate their pyschosexual urges to kill things" then, isn't it? Interesting that the only ones we've heard about in this thread have been your pals and relatives.

I never view violence in terms of "defense" even when I attacked my neighbor to stop him from beating his wife I viewed it as an attack by me on him and not me defending her.

Interesting that you find attacking people acceptable, yet seem to find it unacceptable for other people to defend themselves with every tool available including the tools which might be used against them. Your argument demonstrates a dangerous disconnect with the reality of self defense.

Fine, let's address it. What if criminal A turns out to be a serial killer?

What if the guy who's drunk in the park is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that man littering is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

What if that jaywalker is really a serial killer? Guess we'd better go shoot him!

So now you see why I didn't address it.

Because you are unreasonable when discussing this topic?

One of those two people is in Nevada and the other is now dead.

I rather like the calm and law abiding people I hang with now.

People who have concealed carry permits are some of the most law abiding citizens you'll find. If they aren't law abiding citizens they can't get the permit.

Why do I need to try it? My idiot wall shooting friend did that at the NRA and they kicked him out.

Gun clubs have some pretty high standards. People who "wish to murder" and those "gun crazy foamers looking to satiate their pyschosexual urges to kill things" aren't welcome as members. Remember, those are the kind of people you've chosen as friends.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

We need stricter controls on frying pans.

Especially the heavy cast iron ones.

 

[GeeMack]

We need stricter controls on frying pans.

Especially the heavy cast iron ones.

If frying pans are outlawed...

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Only outlaws will get bacon.

 

[triforcharity]

Only outlaws will get bacon.

Apparently, I need to change my forum name to Outlaw.....

I'll give up bacon after I give up breathing.

 

[sgtbaker]

Apparently, I need to change my forum name to Outlaw.....

I'll give up bacon after I give up breathing.

Hey man! I ain't got any cash but I am running low on the center cut. You holdin?

 

[fuelair]

Well if he is raping her that would be a good time for a frying pan to the head.

.

I do not know about others, but on that condition I would not need any weapon. I do not know precisely how it will happen but I do know from my SCA days that it will happen and at the end of it I will still be standing. Feel free to insert the standard internet tough guy thing. Though if you did or followed SCA, you may well know what fighter form/type I was.

 

[The Dark Lord]

If I catch some piece of **** raping my girlfriend, he is going to die. After she is out of the way, even if he surrenders, I would straight up execute him.

 

[crimresearch]

I do not know about others, but on that condition I would not need any weapon. I do not know precisely how it will happen but I do know from my SCA days that it will happen and at the end of it I will still be standing. Feel free to insert the standard internet tough guy thing. Though if you did or followed SCA, you may well know what fighter form/type I was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

 

[Newtons Bit]

If I catch some piece of **** raping my girlfriend, he is going to die. After she is out of the way, even if he surrenders, I would straight up execute him.

Don't tell the police that. Remember, you were in fear of your life. Even when he was on his knees and looking the other way.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Don't tell the police that. Remember, you were in fear of your life. Even when he was on his knees and looking the other way.

Oh, of course. He was going for the gun.

 

[fuelair]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

Cute. but not SCA. LARP represents the type of people who won't allow (for game purposes) a modified blowback Ingram designed to fire oak or ash bullets w/silver tips auto or semi because it would allow humans to beat vampires easily. SCA just cares that within the safety rules you know how to use your weapon(s). I guarantee rattan wil get your attention fast if you are not watching/good on defense. LARPers do not play with stuff that can hurt if they are incompetant - at least none I have met.

 

[luchog]

Apparently, I need to change my forum name to Outlaw.....

I'll give up bacon after I give up breathing.

Meh. They can steal all the bacon they want from me. But they go near my beer cellar, and they're not walking out alive.

 

[RandFan]

If I catch some piece of **** raping my girlfriend, he is going to die. After she is out of the way, even if he surrenders, I would straight up execute him.

Thank you. That's two. I think most people fail to understand that human empathy is not monolithic and there are people who are not opposed to summary execution and cruel and unusual punishment. I would argue to those who are opposed to taking the law into their own hands that we ought not make it easier to for people to play judge, jury and executioner without consequence.