Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[RandFan]

Highlighting mine.

Oops! I assume you mean phone?

No. Seriously, I pictured GZ as some fumbling goof who dropped his gun. It was later after hearing the link I posted that I imagined him dropping his phone. People do drop guns from time to time. But I should add that my perception of GZ was unfair.

 

[sgtbaker]

It sure sounds like "phones" to me. Listen to this link. Voice range equalized up, repeats three times with the third iteration slowed to 75% of speed, pitch preserved. Still, don't know why GZ would lie if he really did say "punks". Assuming all that, we ought to have a little humility given how hard voice analysis is.

ETA: Listened again, having primed myself to hear "punks" I'm a little closer to that possibility.

It's so funny, isn't it? I heard the sound of the phone moving around and I imagined he was holding the phone between his shoulder and his ear, the phone slipped, and he said, "*********** phones!" I had the whole situation pictured in my head and was so sure that's what he said. Now listening for punks, I hear punks.

 

[RandFan]

It's so funny, isn't it? I heard the sound of the phone moving around and I imagined he was holding the phone between his shoulder and his ear, the phone slipped, and he said, "*********** phones!" I had the whole situation pictured in my head and was so sure that's what he said. Now listening for punks, I hear punks.

Yep, even us vaunted "skeptics" are subject to mistakes.

 

[sgtbaker]

Yep, even us vaunted "skeptics" are subject to mistakes.

You, maybe, but we haven't had a double blind test to prove that speech identification works. It still could be phones...

 

[RandFan]

You, maybe, but we haven't had a double blind test to prove that speech identification works. It still could be phones...

Point taken but please note that I think I was the first to call for double blind tests.

31st March 2012, 08:29 PM
It would be great to do a double blind test of the technology.

My point about excluding GZ was that it's not necessary to exclude Martin to be able to exclude GZ.

 

[sgtbaker]

Point taken but please note that I think I was the first to call for double blind tests.

My point about excluding GZ was that it's not necessary to exclude Martin to be able to exclude GZ.

I wasn't trying to stir anything up, I swear. I was just pretending that I couldn't admit I was wrong about the word.

 

[RandFan]

I wasn't trying to stir anything up, I swear. I was just pretending that I couldn't admit I was wrong about the word.

dude, don't do that when I've got a chip on my shoulder.

 

[RandFan]

dude, don't do that when I've got a chip on my shoulder.

Oh, and by "dude" I don't mean guy. Hell. I should just go back to bed.

 

[sgtbaker]

Oh, and by "dude" I don't mean guy. Hell. I should just go back to bed.

I promise not to mess with you anymore, tonight.

 

[KatieG]

Just saw an interview with Robert Zimmerman, GZ's father. Was local news so not sure what network. He was shielded by shadows and gave the same story GZ gave. TM confronted him, started the fight and GZ shot in self defense. Yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. No one would help him and GZ feared for his life.

Ok, I just checked some original stories and the police first claimed the reason they couldn't arrest GZ was because of the SYG laws. Now it's self defense? Are they the same thing? I'm confused at this point.

 

[triforcharity]

He was shooting a Kel Tec PF-9 9mm, so to have a spent round in the chamber would be highly unusual. I don't know if this model is prone to stovepipes.

I would find that highly unusual with any model from Kel Tec. They are not known for that at all.

 

[triforcharity]

You, maybe, but we haven't had a double blind test to prove that speech identification works. It still could be phones...

Double blind, isn't that when you take someone and blindfold them twice, and see if they can still do a task???



(Context :

I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test, and should have YT vids up in the next couple of days. The fella who's agreed to test me also has no faith in my ability to dowse what so ever, not unlike everyone here. This should be good, do stay tuned...

You're welcome......

 

[Dan O.]

Ok, I just checked some original stories and the police first claimed the reason they couldn't arrest GZ was because of the SYG laws. Now it's self defense? Are they the same thing? I'm confused at this point.

I believe "Stand Your Ground" is the nickname given to Chapter 776 of the Florida statutes which includes both the bits about SYG and justifyable use of force.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry if this was already posted, but Z told his lawyers that the unknown word he whispered is "punks".

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=hp_t1

Of all the things GZ has said that I don't believe, this one is actually believable.

 

[crimresearch]

Just saw an interview with Robert Zimmerman, GZ's father. Was local news so not sure what network. He was shielded by shadows and gave the same story GZ gave. TM confronted him, started the fight and GZ shot in self defense. Yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. No one would help him and GZ feared for his life.

Ok, I just checked some original stories and the police first claimed the reason they couldn't arrest GZ was because of the SYG laws. Now it's self defense? Are they the same thing? I'm confused at this point.

The media has claimed a lot of things about what the police and various people have said, in many cases it seems like they simply stick whatever 'controversial' term they want in there, instead of doing research, and fact checking, and limiting themselves to the facts.

Imagine that.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That MMA cut is kind of famous and it was definitely treated.

Some EMT's and Police do use celox (combat) gauze. Gainesville Florida PD was an early adopter.
http://www.celoxmedical.com/docs/press/0807-Celox Police article.pdf
http://www.celoxmedical.com/prods_firstaid.htm

I see. Well I wonder if when the police use something like this they document it? You'd think so. But it does allow the possibility GZ's cut was deeper than the video suggests. I stand corrected.

There should be plenty of evidence of this cut. We obviously don't have access to all the evidence that might exist.

 

[sgtbaker]

Double blind, isn't that when you take someone and blindfold them twice, and see if they can still do a task???



(Context :

You're welcome......

If he can't do the task blindfolded, what kind of so call expert is he?

 

[crimresearch]

I would find that highly unusual with any model from Kel Tec. They are not known for that at all.

Kel Tec is known for being cheap and small.

But my gun guy friend echoes what you say about them being jam resistant.

It isn't impossible to get them to leave a spent cartridge in the weapon though. Not likely, but this seemed to be a night when a lot of things were going wrong.

 

[Roadtoad]

I swear, I'm about to scream.

131 pages, and few facts beyond what was known from the start, at least as far as I can tell.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

It was discussed elsewhere in this thread. It would indicate a struggle for the weapon, with someone holding onto the slide.

Personal anecdote; When I was young and dumb and just learning to shoot, I thought to try holding the slide and see what happened. I got a hell of a cut on my hand as the weapon cycled anyway. More than thirty years later, I can still see the scar. I've seen 'grab the slide' as advice in self defense forums but I think it's highly dubious that it'll prevent the weapon from cycling. The forces involved are more than sufficient to ignore fragile things like skin.

('grab the hammer', another bit of advice I've heard for fighting a man with a revolver sounds more plausible. )