Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[TheL8Elvis]

Problem is that there is only ONE mark of any kind, of doubtful veracity consistant with his having only ONCE hit his head on the edge of a pavement. He shows no signs of having been savagely beaten by anyone. There is evidence in the fact that a spent cartridge was supposedly found in the chamber of his weapon that they were struggling for posession of the weapon when it discharged. If I have some dirtbag stalker on the ground and see that he is pulling a weapon, pummeling his head is not going to seem the best defensive maneuver possible.

I'm glad you can use the one mark of 'doubtful veracity, from photoshopped pictures', to determine exactly what happened.

Thanks for your made up version of events.

Do you have a link to any reliable source about a spent round still chambered ?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Do you have a link to any reliable source about a spent round still chambered?

I was about to ask about that, that would be huge and is the first time I've heard of that.

 

[RandFan]

I disagree. Most people who were surprised Casey Anthony wasn't convicted didn't actually watch the trial. Here there is a body, multiple eye and ear witnesses of the actual incident, voice recordings, video evidence and who knows what else. The Casey Anthony prosecutors had much less to work with.

Agreed. Sorry to beat a dead horse about standards of evidence, though I think she probably contributed to her child's death I couldn't vote guilty had I been on the jury.

 

[Cylinder]

I was about to ask about that, that would be huge and is the first time I've heard of that.

He was shooting a Kel Tec PF-9 9mm, so to have a spent round in the chamber would be highly unusual. I don't know if this model is prone to stovepipes.

 

[crimresearch]

I was about to ask about that, that would be huge and is the first time I've heard of that.

Weren't a few millions electrons already killed going over that? It wouldn't be huge, it merely opens up more competing hypotheticals.

 

[leftysergeant]

He was shooting a Kel Tec PF-9 9mm, so to have a spent round in the chamber would be highly unusual. I don't know if this model is prone to stovepipes.

It was discussed elsewhere in this thread. It would indicate a struggle for the weapon, with someone holding onto the slide.

 

[curi0us]

In boxing they use a number of things to stop bleeding. Police and EMTs do not apply topical drugs when giving basic first aide. My guess is that wound got treated with something.

That MMA cut is kind of famous and it was definitely treated.

Some EMT's and Police do use celox (combat) gauze. Gainesville Florida PD was an early adopter.
http://www.celoxmedical.com/docs/press/0807-Celox Police article.pdf
http://www.celoxmedical.com/prods_firstaid.htm

 

[This is The End]

Sorry if this was already posted, but Z told his lawyers that the unknown word he whispered is "punks".

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Weren't a few millions electrons already killed going over that?

I only jumped in after page 100 and this is the first mention I've seen of it, I'm obviously not the only one.

It wouldn't be huge, it merely opens up more competing hypotheticals.

But you don't think the hypothetical it would open would be huge? Even though the hypotheticals could competing, wouldn't the likely result be that it would benefit GZ by supporting his claim that there was a struggle over the gun?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Sorry if this was already posted, but Z told his lawyers that the unknown word he whispered is "punks".

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=hp_t1

Hadn't seen it, thanks for posting.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

BTW, I see that Owen states he agrees the word he said was punks. Whereas the other audio expert Primeau claims he clearly heard coons*.

*Primeau refused to say the word but stated it was the racial slur.

 

[RandFan]

Sorry if this was already posted, but Z told his lawyers that the unknown word he whispered is "punks".

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=hp_t1

It sure sounds like "phones" to me. Listen to this link. Voice range equalized up, repeats three times with the third iteration slowed to 75% of speed, pitch preserved. Still, don't know why GZ would lie if he really did say "punks". Assuming all that, we ought to have a little humility given how hard voice analysis is.

ETA: Listened again, having primed myself to hear "punks" I'm a little closer to that possibility.

 

[ugot2bekidding]

I thought it sounded like 'punks' the first time I heard and couldn't understand how people were getting 'coons' from it. I thought I was the only one...I don't recall anyone in the media mentioning 'punks' until now.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I thought it sounded like 'punks' the first time I heard and couldn't understand how people were getting 'coons' from it. I thought I was the only one...I don't recall anyone in the media mentioning 'punks' until now.

The coons thing reminded me of one of my favorite video snippets from Michael Shermer where he demonstrates how by telling us what we are about to hear we hear it. For those that have not seen it skip to exactly 10 minutes in on the video. So I suspect if you prep people and tell them they'll hear coons that's what they'll hear, same thing if you prep them with punks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k

 

[RandFan]

I thought it sounded like 'punks' the first time I heard and couldn't understand how people were getting 'coons' from it. I thought I was the only one...I don't recall anyone in the media mentioning 'punks' until now.

It never sounded like "coons" to me. I didn't get that. First I heard it I thought maybe he had dropped his gun. I think that was why I was primed to hear "phone". It fit with something that would have gotten his attention that had nothing to do with Martin.

 

[nadsat]

Speaking of which, from what I heard those attorney's say and from what I read GZ's brother said, I have a very strong feeling there's a claim on GZ's part that there was some type of a fight over the gun.

It was reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine, and only the round in the chamber was fired. It's possible that the struggle for the gun prevented the sliding mechanism from loading a fresh round into the chamber.

 

[This is The End]

It sure sounds like "phones" to me. Listen to this link. Voice range equalized up, repeats three times with the third iteration slowed to 75% of speed, pitch preserved. Still, don't know why GZ would lie if he really did say "punks". Assuming all that, we ought to have a little humility given how hard voice analysis is.

ETA: Listened again, having primed myself to hear "punks" I'm a little closer to that possibility.

Agreed RandFan. To me it sounds like a few different words are way more likely than "punks"!

But we know how the brain tends to be tricky with audio, so we'll leave it to the experts.

I thought it sounded like 'punks' the first time I heard and couldn't understand how people were getting 'coons' from it. I thought I was the only one...I don't recall anyone in the media mentioning 'punks' until now.

I'm pretty sure I remember someone in the thread saying "punks", maybe it was you ?

 

[nadsat]

The coons thing reminded me of one of my favorite video snippets from Michael Shermer where he demonstrates how by telling us what we are about to hear we hear it. For those that have not seen it skip to exactly 10 minutes in on the video. So I suspect if you prep people and tell them they'll hear coons that's what they'll hear, same thing if you prep them with punks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k

yeah, audio pareidolia. Same phenomenon that makes people see Jesus in a bark of wood.

 

[This is The End]

It never sounded like "coons" to me. I didn't get that. First I heard it I thought maybe he had dropped his gun. I think that was why I was primed to hear "phone". It fit with something that would have gotten his attention that had nothing to do with Martin.

Highlighting mine.

Oops! I assume you mean phone?

 

[crimresearch]

I only jumped in after page 100 and this is the first mention I've seen of it, I'm obviously not the only one.

But you don't think the hypothetical it would open would be huge? Even though the hypotheticals could competing, wouldn't the likely result be that it would benefit GZ by supporting his claim that there was a struggle over the gun?

A struggle is certainly one way that could happen. Lack of proper maintenance would be another. Ammunition bought on sale at Dollar Tree yet another

The Kel Tec isn't exactly a Porsche among pistols.