Merged Roosevelt's Rotten Record:Communism, Treachery, Betrayal

[Garrison]

Oo! oo! oo! Waves hand in the air.. Please sir me sir!! I know that one!!

Sorry, no help from the audience.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Add to the attack on PH you also had the nearly simultaneous attacks (about a 10 hour time difference) on the Phillipines (a US protectorate), and you have a causus belli - whether the attacks were a surprise or not.

Actually, the landings at Khota Baru happened about four hours earlier than Pearl. The commander had a bit of buck fever, I think.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It does flag up his basic ignorance, all the 'provocation' was going in the Atlantic. And I'm quite sure he won't be able to provide the date or name for the first US Navy ship sunk during WWII, taking the invasion of Poland as the start.

OR that two American battleships were sunk by the Germans prior to Pearl Harbor.

 

[SpitfireIX]

OR that two American battleships were sunk by the Germans prior to Pearl Harbor.

"Ooh, ooh, ooh! Mr. Kotter! Ooh, ooh, ooh!"

 

[Hans]

The Italians thought they had sunk an American Battleship or two during the war. There was a conspiracy in Italy after the war when the Battleships thought to have been sunk were seen to be doing quite well....conspiracy solution, claim that the Americans had rebuilt them!

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Ooh, ooh, ooh! Mr. Kotter! Ooh, ooh, ooh!"

*points at Spitfire*

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Italians thought they had sunk an American Battleship or two during the war. There was a conspiracy in Italy after the war when the Battleships thought to have been sunk were seen to be doing quite well....conspiracy solution, claim that the Americans had rebuilt them!

They got at least on British BB, IIRC.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Which one?

I know the Italians damaged a couple but they never sank.

Barham went down but that was a U Boat

 

[SpitfireIX]

Kilkis (ex-USS Mississippi) and Lemnos (ex-USS Idaho).

 

[Hans]

They got at least on British BB, IIRC.

Ah two actually - for awhile at least

HMS Queen Elizabeth, sunk by Italian frogmen in Alexandria harbor, Egypt December 18th 1941 with loss of 9 crew. Raised, repaired and returned to duty.

HMS Valiant, sunk by Italian frogmen in Alexandria harbor, Egypt December 18th 1941. Raised, repaired and returned to duty.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Kilkis (ex-USS Mississippi) and Lemnos (ex-USS Idaho).

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ah two actually - for awhile at least

HMS Queen Elizabeth, sunk by Italian frogmen in Alexandria harbor, Egypt December 18th 1941 with loss of 9 crew. Raised, repaired and returned to duty.

HMS Valiant, sunk by Italian frogmen in Alexandria harbor, Egypt December 18th 1941. Raised, repaired and returned to duty.

Yep, and thus the claim that the USN repaired and refloated their lost BBs.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Queen Elizabeth was repaired in the USA, maybe that's where the story about a US battleship comes from?

 

[SpitfireIX]

They got at least on British BB, IIRC.

Well, their frogmen "sank" Queen Elizabeth the same way that the Japanese "sank" West Virginia and California, but she was returned to action 18 months later. That may be why they thought the Brits were faking it.

ETA: Beaten to the punch by several people.

 

[Mudcat]

Again, from the top, self-defense is not an act of agression even if the attacker hasn't launched the first shot or if the first shot hadn't landed.

Now, SHC what is it with this? Why are you so gung-ho about "He was looking for any reason to get into the war at any cost"? It would prepare appear from my perspective that the oppostite was true.

Corrected my post. Also one of the very first rules of engagement state very clearly "You have the right to defend yourself against attacks or threats of attack" which would cover launching a preemptive strike against a fleet in your territorial waters when you have actionable intel that they are going to attack your fleet and resources.

Kind of pokes holes in your "they had to let it happen" theory baseless assertion SHC.

 

[Hans]

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19421006&id=JDhPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=w00DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5848,3650125

Italian claim of a US battleship sunk

http://books.google.com/books?id=-TxsHldokeMC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=italian+submarine+claimed+to+sink+a+battleship&source=bl&ots=N8pUqIAwiD&sig=w7vrWK9brKhf5R4v4qJZhOZoBw0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s3F8T7PMD5TKiQKWlum8DQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=italian%20submarine%20claimed%20to%20sink%20a%20battleship&f=false

The commander Grossi thought to have sunk a battleship "Maryland" class, in the first case, and in the second a battleship "Mississipi" class.
For these events the commander Grossi was decorate with Gold Medal and had two promotions, the Fascist propaganda had the occasion to take advantage the situation with much clamour.
In realty, off to Brasil, Grossi attacked the cruiser USS Milwaukee, and near Freetown the predestined victim was the simple corvette HMS Petunia without to hit the targets.
In the Post War, however, when these facts had knowed, numerous polemics began that don't end not even when the committee of inquiry ascertained officially the realty on the 1962.
In realty the commitee of inquiry considered the commander Grossi in perfect good faith and the valutation errors was warranted for the occasions of the night attacks.
On the 1943 the Barbarigo was changed in submarine to shipping precious materials to and from the East.
The Barbarigo was sunk, by air attack, during the first misson of this type.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Any "evidence" that Pearl Harbor was a LIHOP could be applied even more effectively to the Phillipines. They saw that attack coming from miles away, and completely bungled their defense...even with their best general in charge.

So, according to CT logic, it HAD to be on purpose. Only problem is...why?

I LIKE that acronym.

 

[Andy_Ross]

LIHOP, borrowed from 911 'truther' threads it goes with MIHOP Make It Happen

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

LIHOP, borrowed from 911 'truther' threads it goes with MIHOP Make It Happen

I used to be an MMC in MP onboard an LHA in the USN. I'm kinda used to acronyms, FYI.

 

[Dancing David]

It really wouldn't matter. We could have a diary entry from FDR saying:



and it would just be dismissed as FDR just covering up his knowledge of the attack.