Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Unabogie]

http://0.tqn.com/d/beginnersinvest/1/0/0/L/saving-money-tips-stacks-of-dollars-cash.jpg

Zimmerman's family is much wealthier than Martin's, and now I read that the NRA is creating a legal defense fund for Zimmerman.

So kindly explain why the money points towards one conclusion over another? Why not say the voice is Zimmerman so Zimmerman hires him?

Or does the conspiracy go deeper than any of us realized?

 

[crimresearch]

That's only half the quote. What he said in the full quote is:



This is the allegation to which he is responding.



http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...ws/articles/cfn/2012/4/2/martin_family_attorn

I am adding to what you put, not correcting it. FWIW, I think the Martin family lawyer is running out of people to call conspiracy on. He may end up alienating supporters with his reckless allegations.

That does not seem to deny every single thing in the letter, just some unnamed parts deemed outrageous lies, after mentioning 'no such meeting or communication'.

He might only be talking about Trayvon's family being there that night (which would match the claim of them not knowing until later), or he could be talking about meeting with the Chief.

It does not come right out and say that Serino lied about filing charges or about being overruled, does it?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

And compared to GZ, who has more motivation to lie? Why would Owen get less money if he found the voice was GZ's?

He wouldn't. But he had to say it was someone and it's probably a hell of a lot more popular stance to say it was Martin. Heck, I'm not even suggesting he did so knowingly. I think it's entirely possible that he vastly overestimates his expertise or skill and genuinely believes in his analysis.

As I've mentioned, I work in the audio field and have done a number of blind tests over the years. It's very common even for people who have expert level at something to not be able to comprehend the placebo effect and that it applies to them too.

I think this where if we had a good media or someone like James Randi involved all of this could be put to rest. Before either of these guys got quoted in the media they should have been put to the test to prove they can do what they claim to do. Though I suspect they would have backed out in those circumstances.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Thanks. That shot isn't nearly clear enough.

You're welcome. Not sure what the expectation was.

Really, if there are no actual digital photos and paramedic reports, I'll be shocked.

Also wanted to add that even if someone on top of me pushed my head against the sidewalk rather hard once or thrice, I might describe it as he 'beat my head against the sidewalk.' IOW, the phrase 'beat my head against the sidewalk' can be at least a bit subjective.

The people claiming that he isn't 'acing' like someone who had their head beaten against the sidewalk seem to have never kids do themselves some pretty wicked wipeouts and falls, and be up and back running or whatever just a few minutes later.

 

[SomedayGirl]

The people claiming that he isn't 'acing' like someone who had their head beaten against the sidewalk seem to have never kids do themselves some pretty wicked wipeouts and falls, and be up and back running or whatever just a few minutes later.

Zimmerman's 26, not 9...

Thanks for the screen shot. For myself, I don't see anything that even remotely resembles the "injuries" in the doctored...pardon me, enhanced images from later in the tape. Mileage varies, of course.

 

[sgtbaker]

That does not seem to deny every single thing in the letter, just some unnamed parts deemed outrageous lies, after mentioning 'no such meeting or communication'.

He might only be talking about Trayvon's family being there that night (which would match the claim of them not knowing until later), or he could be talking about meeting with the Chief.

It does not come right out and say that Serino lied about filing charges or about being overruled, does it?

From the article that Unabogie linked:

Lynne Bumpus-Hooper, a spokesman for Wolfinger, said the state attorney never spoke with Lee on the night of the shooting. Instead Sanford police consulted that night with Kelly Jo Hines, the prosecutor on call, Bumpus-Hooper said. She declined to say what was discussed.

I can only go on the alleged lies he names, that Wolfinger and Lee got together with Zimmerman's family and decided not to press charges. Apparently the decision not to press charges had nothing to do with him. What I don't understand is, wouldn't the prosecutor on call be a representative of the State Attorney's office? If someone spoke with Kelly, wouldn't that by default be speaking with the State Attorney's office? Ah, nevermind, then. I read that wrong, the state attorney never spoke to Lee.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here.

The reason I ask is that since Zimmerman already concluded that Martin was a likely threat, then isn't he going to have his hand on his gun, or be holding the gun hidden in his pocket, if he's following this figure he thinks is dangerous into the dark?

Yet IF we are to believe Zimmerman's version of events, his gun was likely still holstered when the fight started, no? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Zimmerman's 26, not 9...

Thanks for the screen shot. For myself, I don't see anything that even remotely resembles the "injuries" in the doctored...pardon me, enhanced images from later in the tape. Mileage varies, of course.

Different camera, different distance than the other image.

I see something nebulous there. Again, I just don't see it as far fetched that he injured (in some way shape or form) the back of his head. Why lie about something so easily verified ?

 

[RandFan]

Then why is it Owen drew a conclusion? Why didn't he say what you claim he should have said?

[picture of money]

It's possible, it happens.

DNA expert testifies evidence withheld in lacrosse case

The director of a private DNA laboratory [Brian Meehan] testified Friday that he violated his own policiesa by agreeing with Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong to
initially withhold information favorable to three Duke lacrosse players
charged with raping an exotic dancer.

Meehan lost his position shortly after the scandal. It's not always rewarding to lie.

 

[sgtbaker]

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here, make fun if you will.

The reason I ask is that if I was armed and decide to follow someone that I have already concluded is a likely threat as Zimmerman did, then I'm gone to have my hand on my gun, or my hand on my gun hidden in my pocket.

Yet IF we are to believe Zimmerman's version of events, his gun was likely still holstered when the fight started, no? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It's another one of those situations that, if we only knew, it would clear up a lot.

 

[sgtbaker]

Different camera, different distance than the other image.

I see something nebulous there. Again, I just don't see it as far fetched that he injured (in some way shape or form) the back of his head. Why lie about something so easily verified ?

...and get so many people to concure with the lie.

 

[triforcharity]

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here, make fun if you will.

The reason I ask is that if I was armed and decide to follow someone that I have already concluded is a likely threat as Zimmerman did, then I'm gone to have my hand on my gun, or my hand on my gun hidden in my pocket.

Yet IF we are to believe Zimmerman's version of events, his gun was likely still holstered when the fight started, no? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

IF Zimmerman had his gun out of the holster, then he is absolutely 100% guilty of AT MINIMUM homicide, since he became the aggressor at that point.

IF he did not, and only used it later, there is too much missing to decide.

My OPINION, based on the little bit of info we have, I feel that Zimmerman's story doesn't add up.

But, of course, my opinion is subject to change, pending further information.

 

[crimresearch]

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here, make fun if you will.

The reason I ask is that if I was armed and decide to follow someone that I have already concluded is a likely threat as Zimmerman did, then I'm gone to have my hand on my gun, or my hand on my gun hidden in my pocket.

Yet IF we are to believe Zimmerman's version of events, his gun was likely still holstered when the fight started, no? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

The police report says they took the weapon and an inside the waist holster. That makes it possible that it stayed in the holster until close to the shooting.

 

[johnny karate]

You're welcome. Not sure what the expectation was.

Really, if there are no actual digital photos and paramedic reports, I'll be shocked.

Also wanted to add that even if someone on top of me pushed my head against the sidewalk rather hard once or thrice, I might describe it as he 'beat my head against the sidewalk.' IOW, the phrase 'beat my head against the sidewalk' can be at least a bit subjective.

The people claiming that he isn't 'acing' like someone who had their head beaten against the sidewalk seem to have never kids do themselves some pretty wicked wipeouts and falls, and be up and back running or whatever just a few minutes later.

But do you know what isn't the least bit subjective? Saying the wound is severe enough to require stitches as Zimmerman's lawyer did. That's pretty damn specific.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here, make fun if you will.

As many people as I know with CCP - I'll go with in the holster. They just carry everywhere ... in needs to be on them or within reach - not in their hand.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

But do you know what isn't the least bit subjective? Saying the wound is severe enough to require stitches as Zimmerman's lawyer did. That's pretty damn specific.

Hmm. I would have thought the need for stitches is at least a little subjective.

I also expect the attorney to do everything necessary to win a case for their client. I am not sure bending the truth in media interviews doesn't fall under that obligation.

And maybe GZ did go, and can prove he went to the hospital the next day.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

As many people as I know with CCP - I'll go with in the holster. They just carry everywhere ... in needs to be on them or within reach - not in their hand.

Interesting. I don't own a gun, but when I imagine following someone I think could be dangerous in the dark, I imagine myself having my hand on the gun. Then again, that might slow you down.

 

[This is The End]

That's if you are using spectrographic analysis. Not at all relevant if you are using biometrics, which do not, in any way, involve looking at visual representations of the samples.

I thought WildCat told us those are the exact same thing?

Screams aside - isn't one of the questions voice biometrics vs voice spectrography ?

It's just 2 terms for the same thing. Both amalyze audio spectrographs.

Could someone clarify this?


ETA: It seems this post already addresses it. I'll have to read the link.

And it looks like I'm right.

Biometrics

The entire article explains the difference but you can read page 3 if you want to cut to the chase. (The article is copy paste protected).

See the intro on page 1.

 

[KatieG]

Speculation lies ahead!

I have a question about the case for everyone. One of the things I've wondered is when Zimmerman decided to follow Martin, where was his gun? Was it holstered? In his pocket? Did he have it in his hand in his pocket? Yes, I am asking for pure speculation here, make fun if you will.

The reason I ask is that if I was armed and decide to follow someone that I have already concluded is a likely threat as Zimmerman did, then I'm gone to have my hand on my gun, or my hand on my gun hidden in my pocket.

Yet IF we are to believe Zimmerman's version of events, his gun was likely still holstered when the fight started, no? Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I not sure I understand exactly what type of holster GZ had. It is a waistband type holster but how it attaches to the clothing, I'm clueless.

However, in this case, I'll take you up on your invitation to speculate. I think GZ grabbed his gun from its location in the truck and proceeded to follow TM. In whatever manner the altercation began, it ended with both of them on the ground. (I'd like to leave open the possibility that GZ fired UP at TM, but we have no information on the trajectory) I think during the fight, GZ got his gun out and shot TM. I'm not so much interested in the head wounds but in the police video, his clothing doesn't appear to have bloodstains. Bloodstains would show up even on a red shirt. (see Star Trek, Ensign Redshirt ) I can see nothing about whether his nose was actually broken because they are fixed cameras, offering a limited view.

I think the EMT report will be interesting. I suspect a lot of truth will be found in their records. One thing I know they don't do is clean clothes. Obviously GZ's clothing will be very important.

Basically, I speculate GZ grabbed his gun, got out of his truck, went after TM, started the confrontation and it spun out of control at that point. I will allow for the possibility that GZ might have been in fear but not to the level that he needed to draw his gun and shoot TM.

We are missing so many facts that will ultimately drive the direction of this investigation.

And yea, I kinda think GZ is a bit racist. Not KKK level but more than perhaps he knows or would even acknowledge.

 

[KatieG]

Different camera, different distance than the other image.

I see something nebulous there. Again, I just don't see it as far fetched that he injured (in some way shape or form) the back of his head. Why lie about something so easily verified ?

I don't think GZ thought his version would ever be questioned. Once he claimed SYG, the onus is on the prosecution. Considering the amount of time this took to hit the news, he might have thought he was safe.

Of course he couldn't have known this at the time, but even with cameras everywhere, people get away with lying all the time.