Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[WildCat]

Hi WildCat, do you have any basis whatsoever to question the methods and conclusions of bona fide experts?

No?

I'd thank you for playing, but when it comes to audio forensics, you're not even in the game.

So that means you don't have any evidence at all that any voice recognition technique can match a scream to a spoken voice, correct?

 

[RandFan]

I was under the impression the expert conclusion was it is not GZ yelling for help on the tape. Where is the level of doubt? Some forum expert wannabe's opinions they aren't satisfied?

None of the naysayers in this discussion are arguing in their fields of expertise, they are arguing about something they have a passing knowledge of.

Shades of Larry Craig, remember? Based on what I know I've formed an opinion. The voice on the tape isn't GZ.

Now, if I were shuffled into a court today and asked to rule on GZ's guilt based solely on what I know it would be not guilty. If however the defense called no rebuttal witnesses and/or their rebuttal evidence were poor I'd vote guilty.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

OK, has anyone taken a close look at Thomas Owen's educational background? Want to know what his B.A. is in? History! Other than that, he's taken some courses from SunAudCon which is one of those organizations that offers courses that last a few days and then you get a certificate. Then in 1985 he took some type of a "voice identification course". i.e. he probably sat through a course for a few days and took a test. Then from there he turned himself into an "expert". BAHAHAHAH.

Some of you guys have no idea how easy it is to become an "expert".

Tell me this. How many climate scientists do you know who's degree is in History? Want to keep telling us being skeptical about this guy is like doubting climate scientists?

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/about.html

 

[johnny karate]

Can you quote the parts where Zimmerman says he's associated with a neighborhood watch program?

Oh I see... your arbitrary standard evidence is a direct quote from Zimmerman so you can... what? Challenge my claim based on semantics?

Or is it your belief that while Zimmerman was acknowledged as the neighborhood watch captain by his neighbors that he somehow didn't acknowledge or believe it himself?

Or do you believe this to be just another puzzle piece in an elaborate conspiracy to frame Zimmerman?

 

[RandFan]

OK, has anyone taken a close look at Thomas Owen's educational background?
http://www.owlinvestigations.com/about.html

Thank you.

Mr. Owen's qualifications as an expert witness have been demonstrated in more than thirty-five states for both prosecution and defense.

• B.A. History 1969
• Bellarmine College, Louisville, Kentucky
• Certificate of Achievement, Electro-Acoustics Synergetic Audio Concepts, 1983
• Completion of Voice Identification Course, 1985
• Certification as Voice Identification Examiner, July 17, 1986 by the
• International Association for Identification,
  Life Member Kentucky Division
  Life Member New Jersey Division
• Audio Engineering Society NY Chapter Board of Directors 1989-1991 1996-1998
• Chairman (1991 to Present) Audio Engineering Society WG0-12 Working Group
  "Forensic Audio"
• The American Board of Forensic Examiners - BCFE, ABFE Fellow, Life Member,
  Board Certified, Homeland Security Advisory Board
• Chairman Emeritus of the Board of Recorded Evidence - American College of Forensic
  Examiners 1997, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
• Diplomate in Audio/Video Authenticity and Voice Identification
• Instructor "Southern Conference Seminar" Western Kentucky University 1992
• Instructor "New York Institute for Forensic Audio" 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,
  1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,2006, 2007
• Special Deputy, Warren County Sheriff's Department, Bowling Green, KY
• Experience in the Recording Arts, 35 years

Looks great to me.

 

[WildCat]

Oh I see... your arbitrary standard evidence is a direct quote from Zimmerman so you can... what? Challenge my claim based on semantics?

Or is it your belief that while Zimmerman was acknowledged as the neighborhood watch captain by his neighbors that he somehow didn't acknowledge or believe it himself?

Or do you believe this to be just another puzzle piece in an elaborate conspiracy to frame Zimmerman?

So you can't find any evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman claimed to be a member of the program whose rules you keep saying he broke?

 

[WildCat]

Thank you.
Looks great to me.

Can you link to his studies showing that a scream can be matched to a speaking voice?

 

[totoro]

There's nothing ignorant about it. No one has provided any evidence that any voice recognition technique can be used to match a scream (and a very short, low quality recording at that) with a spoken voice.

These 2 self-proclaimed experts claim to have done this. If so, it would be an unprecedented advance in voice recognition capabilities.

As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Me arguing with you about this software is like an English professor arguing with an illiterate about Dostoevsky. If you read that Finnish paper linked to earlier and understand it, then there is some basis for argument. Until then, I won't engage with you further on this topic.

 

[johnny karate]

So that means you don't have any evidence at all that any voice recognition technique can match a scream to a spoken voice, correct?

Why do I need to provide evidence of something that hasn't been established to be relevant?

That an unqualified layperson denies the efficacy of a particular voice recognition technique means absolutely nothing to me.

 

[johnny karate]

OK, has anyone taken a close look at Thomas Owen's educational background? Want to know what his B.A. is in? History! Other than that, he's taken some courses from SunAudCon which is one of those organizations that offers courses that last a few days and then you get a certificate. Then in 1985 he took some type of a "voice identification course". i.e. he probably sat through a course for a few days and took a test. Then from there he turned himself into an "expert". BAHAHAHAH.

Some of you guys have no idea how easy it is to become an "expert".

Please indicate the appropriate amount of training that would be required, and what basis you have for determining that.

 

[totoro]

You don't know if the technical data is available or not. I'm saying just because you don't see it online doesn't mean it isn't available.

You're really quibbling now. I said _freely_ available. This is generally taken to mean that one can get it without looking too hard or having to send an email. Since I'm not claiming they owe it to me to make it available, and we don't disagree on any matter of real substance I'm not sure why you won't let go of this.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Just in case anyone's interested, the second "expert" can't compete with the guy who has a degree in history. His degree is in "communication studies with a minor in criminal science". Yep, these guys sound like full fledged scientists to me ;-).

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/CV-2011-FALL_UPDATED.pdf

 

[johnny karate]

So you can't find any evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman claimed to be a member of the program whose rules you keep saying he broke?

Zimmerman broke the rules of any official neighborhood watch program.

That he either ignored his training, or just didn't bother to do any, are both equally reckless and irresponsible.

 

[RandFan]

Why do I need to provide evidence of something that hasn't been established to be relevant?

That an unqualified layperson denies the efficacy of a particular voice recognition technique means absolutely nothing to me.

It's the crockaduck argument.

 

[WildCat]

Me arguing with you about this software is like an English professor arguing with an illiterate about Dostoevsky. If you read that Finnish paper linked to earlier and understand it, then there is some basis for argument. Until then, I won't engage with you further on this topic.

Can you quote the parts of the Finnish paper that supports the premise that a scream can be matched with a speaking voice?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Sorry, you'll have to elaborate. What part of that claim is false?

Zimmerman did claim to be affiliated with a neighborhood watch program.

Zimmerman did violate the rules of said neighborhood watch program.

The hilited part. AGAIN. This is getting silly.

What is the neighborhood watch program and where can I find the rules for the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood watch program?

If one is a member of the neighborhood watch, are you like a police officer, on duty 24x7, or is it possible to act in the capacity of a normal citizen and not a member of the neighborhood watch at any time ?

 

[WildCat]

Why do I need to provide evidence of something that hasn't been established to be relevant?

So you're abandoning the claim that the 2 so-called experts could rule out the scream as belonging to Zimmerman?

 

[johnny karate]

It's the crockaduck argument.

What I want to know is how could WTC7 collapse because of a few fires?

What those so-called "experts" tell us about it just doesn't wash with me.

 

[WildCat]

Zimmerman broke the rules of any official neighborhood watch program.

Evidence that he belonged to an "official" NW program?

That he either ignored his training, or just didn't bother to do any, are both equally reckless and irresponsible.

Evidence that his particular program (if any) provided training?

 

[WildCat]

What I want to know is how could WTC7 collapse because of a few fires?

What those so-called "experts" tell us about it just doesn't wash with me.

Exactly. These 2 clowns are the Richard Gage and Steven Jones of audio forensics.