Time to Give Naturopathy a Chance!

Wowbagger

The Infinitely Prolonged
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
15,660
Location
Westchester County, NY (when not in space)
Naturopathy remains highly controversial and contested since it emerged in the late 1800s. That much is true. But, today I would like to post this thread explaining some of the reasons how it could be good stuff, after all!

My mind started to flip on this issue after talking with a very astute fellow at I-Con 31 (A sci-fi/fact/fantasy convention in New York): Thomas Ragu is a futurist, fellow skeptic, and a Doctor of Naturopathy (yes, and actual doctor!). The account I am about to give is based on my memory and some notes I jotted down shortly after the meeting, so I might get some of these details wrong. Hopefully, you will eventually forgive me for any errors in here.

His point is that one can legitimately study all sorts of natural and holistic remedies without rejecting all of science: Only some of those aspects that seem to conspire against its practices. Things like nutrition, diet, exercise, vitamins and minerals, energy, etc. How can those be so bad?! What could be so wrong with treating the person as a whole, instead of just targeting the source of their ailments, the conventionally efficacious way?!

Look, this is a guy who loves it when TV shows get the science right, like E.R., Scrubs, and some episodes of Star Trek; and he hates it when they get it wrong, like the various news magazine shows, House, and some episodes of Star Trek. His opinion of Dr. Oz is fairly low: calling him a gimmicky snake-oil salesman, who is all hype and only a little substance.

And, he ran a whole panel where he was skeptical about ghosts, aliens, psychics, the moon "hoax", etc. How can someone that bright possibly be so wrong about medicine?! After all, he seems to have tons of happy clients!

For most of his career he was skeptical of homeopathy. But, recently, several studies, including some from Switzerland and Yemen, seem to indicate that there might be something to it. So he is now looking into the idea of adding it to his repertoire. Although he knew who James Randi was, he did not seem to know of his strong skeptical stance against the stuff, and I warned him to look into that.

Naturopathy is only officially licensed and certified in 15 states. And, for some reason, New York is not one of them. Dr. Ragu is campaigning to change that! He thinks the quality of care would be ridiculed far less, if they could garner the same respect as conventional medicine. And, I agree with that, but it's going to take a lot of work on their part to demonstrate that.

As we enter this second quarter of 2012, perhaps it might be high time to give naturopathy a chance!!

Let me know what you think, and try to be diplomatic! I will invite Thomas to this thread to discuss and defend his ideas, soon. But, it might have to wait until after I-Con is over.
 
Last edited:
Naturopaths seem to me to be competely undereducated in medicine.

I see no reason to give any "medical treatment" that is based on VitalismWP the time of day.

Oh, and anecdotally, they are dangerous.
When my father was being treated for pancreatic cancer a friend, who's a naturopath, suggested Goji Berry juice as the latest and greatest in healthy alternatives that.... oh, I can't remember what BS he was pushing.

Needless to say, the recommendation was based on an "OMG it's great!" belief and the "practitioner" pushed this onto my father with absolutely no discussion of my father's condition.

What this idiot was NOT aware of was the complications and warnings about injesting Goji berries or juice while taking Warfarin. In fact I stumble across this fact by accident reading JREF.

They are dangerous and their "medicine" is based on woo.

The irony is, is that they seem to be more interested in pushing their "alternative" products than anything else.
This is one of the main criticisms of woo sCAM, that "allopathic" doctors are mere shills pushing drugs for pharmaceutical companies.
In 2006 they were pushing Goji juice at AU$50 / litre, nearly 50 x the price of a litre of milk.

So add hypocrites to, dangerous and woo.
 
Last edited:
Naturopathy remains highly controversial and contested since it emerged in the late 1800s. That much is true. But, today I would like to post this thread explaining some of the reasons how it could be good stuff, after all!

My mind started to flip on this issue after talking with a very astute fellow at I-Con 31 (A sci-fi/fact/fantasy convention in New York): Thomas Ragu is a futurist, fellow skeptic, and a Doctor of Naturopathy (yes, and actual doctor!). The account I am about to give is based on my memory and some notes I jotted down shortly after the meeting, so I might get some of these details wrong. Hopefully, you will eventually forgive me for any errors in here.

His point is that one can legitimately study all sorts of natural and holistic remedies without rejecting all of science: Only some of those aspects that seem to conspire against its practices. Things like nutrition, diet, exercise, vitamins and minerals, energy, etc. How can those be so bad?! What could be so wrong with treating the person as a whole, instead of just targeting the source of their ailments, the conventionally efficacious way?!

Look, this is a guy who loves it when TV shows get the science right, like E.R., Scrubs, and some episodes of Star Trek; and he hates it when they get it wrong, like the various news magazine shows, House, and some episodes of Star Trek. His opinion of Dr. Oz is fairly low: calling him a gimmicky snake-oil salesman, who is all hype and only a little substance.

And, he ran a whole panel where he was skeptical about ghosts, aliens, psychics, the moon "hoax", etc. How can someone that bright possibly be so wrong about medicine?! After all, he seems to have tons of happy clients!

For most of his career he was skeptical of homeopathy. But, recently, several studies, including some from Switzerland and Yemen, seem to indicate that there might be something to it. So he is now looking into the idea of adding it to his repertoire. Although he knew who James Randi was, he did not seem to know of his strong skeptical stance against the stuff, and I warned him to look into that.

Naturopathy is only officially licensed and certified in 15 states. And, for some reason, New York is not one of them. Dr. Ragu is campaigning to change that! He thinks the quality of care would be ridiculed far less, if they could garner the same respect as conventional medicine. And, I agree with that, but it's going to take a lot of work on their part to demonstrate that.

As we enter this second quarter of 2012, perhaps it might be high time to give naturopathy a chance!!

Let me know what you think, and try to be diplomatic! I will invite Thomas to this thread to discuss and defend his ideas, soon. But, it might have to wait until after I-Con is over.

The one woo to rule them all.

The idea that by diluting a substance you can make it's effects stronger defies all physical laws.


As we enter this second quarter of 2012, perhaps it might be high time to give naturopathy(witch doctors) a chance!!



Same thing.
 
Naturopathy remains highly controversial and contested since it emerged in the late 1800s. That much is true. But, today I would like to post this thread explaining some of the reasons how it could be good stuff, after all!

My mind started to flip on this issue after talking with a very astute fellow at I-Con 31 (A sci-fi/fact/fantasy convention in New York): Thomas Ragu is a futurist, fellow skeptic, and a Doctor of Naturopathy (yes, and actual doctor!). The account I am about to give is based on my memory and some notes I jotted down shortly after the meeting, so I might get some of these details wrong. Hopefully, you will eventually forgive me for any errors in here.

His point is that one can legitimately study all sorts of natural and holistic remedies without rejecting all of science: Only some of those aspects that seem to conspire against its practices. Things like nutrition, diet, exercise, vitamins and minerals, energy, etc. How can those be so bad?! What could be so wrong with treating the person as a whole, instead of just targeting the source of their ailments, the conventionally efficacious way?!

Look, this is a guy who loves it when TV shows get the science right, like E.R., Scrubs, and some episodes of Star Trek; and he hates it when they get it wrong, like the various news magazine shows, House, and some episodes of Star Trek. His opinion of Dr. Oz is fairly low: calling him a gimmicky snake-oil salesman, who is all hype and only a little substance.

And, he ran a whole panel where he was skeptical about ghosts, aliens, psychics, the moon "hoax", etc. How can someone that bright possibly be so wrong about medicine?! After all, he seems to have tons of happy clients!

For most of his career he was skeptical of homeopathy. But, recently, several studies, including some from Switzerland and Yemen, seem to indicate that there might be something to it. So he is now looking into the idea of adding it to his repertoire. Although he knew who James Randi was, he did not seem to know of his strong skeptical stance against the stuff, and I warned him to look into that.

Naturopathy is only officially licensed and certified in 15 states. And, for some reason, New York is not one of them. Dr. Ragu is campaigning to change that! He thinks the quality of care would be ridiculed far less, if they could garner the same respect as conventional medicine. And, I agree with that, but it's going to take a lot of work on their part to demonstrate that.

As we enter this second quarter of 2012, perhaps it might be high time to give naturopathy a chance!!

Let me know what you think, and try to be diplomatic! I will invite Thomas to this thread to discuss and defend his ideas, soon. But, it might have to wait until after I-Con is over.



Happy April!
 
We've treated plenty of diseases and ailments with natural compounds found in plants. I'd be extremely unhappy if we had never created aspirin.

It's too bad, though, that naturopathy tries to go into the realm of magic for its cures. It's so useless that it takes an April Fool's joke for anyone not trying to con people to appear to talk about it seriously.
 
I see that Thomas Ragu is an anagram for...

Aha Smug Rot

Tags Our Ham, and I guess, Tag Our Sham

A Orgasm Hut

A Gator Mush

A Stag Humor = oh and Humor As Tag
 
I decided to unplug this ruse a bit early, since it may impact a more serious thread I will start later....

APRIL FOOLS!

This thread is a somewhat-fictionalized version of an actual encounter I had at I-Con 31 (thread, official site), this weekend.


The actual naturopath I met was named James Prego. (Get it? Ragu... Prego?!) Only a few parts of my description actually match his views. But, I will start a new thread with details about the real encounter later in the week. And, I will invite him to be part of it, if he wishes.

Apologies to Prego if he discovers this thread too early, and is offended by it. (I will inform him about this prank thread at the same time I invite him to the real discusison.)

I see that Thomas Ragu is an anagram for...

I was going to mention that his middle name was something like "Atoh", but that might have made it a little too obvious.


For those interested, here is a complete listing of all of my April Fools threads, so far:
2008: Evolution: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110337
2009: Uri Geller: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138985
2010: Nigeria: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171571 (this one was silly)
2011: JREF: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205074
2012: Naturopathy: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233369
 
Last edited:
I decided to unplug this ruse a bit early, since it may impact a more serious thread I will start later....

APRIL FOOLS!

This thread is a somewhat-fictionalized version of an actual encounter I had at I-Con 31 (thread, official site), this weekend.


The actual naturopath I met was named James Prego. (Get it? Ragu... Prego?!) Only a few parts of my description actually match his views. But, I will start a new thread with details about the real encounter later in the week. And, I will invite him to be part of it, if he wishes.

Apologies to Prego if he discovers this thread too early, and is offended by it. (I will inform him about this prank thread at the same time I invite him to the real discusison.)



I was going to mention that his middle name was something like "Atoh", but that might have made it a little too obvious.


For those interested, here is a complete listing of all of my April Fools threads, so far:
2008: Evolution: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110337
2009: Uri Geller: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138985
2010: Nigeria: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171571 (this one was silly)
2011: JREF: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205074
2012: Naturopathy: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233369

:blush:
 
We've treated plenty of diseases and ailments with natural compounds found in plants. I'd be extremely unhappy if we had never created aspirin.

It's too bad, though, that naturopathy tries to go into the realm of magic for its cures. It's so useless that it takes an April Fool's joke for anyone not trying to con people to appear to talk about it seriously.

As my brother-in-law in rural Oklahoma pointed out when we were discussing the whole "organic" gardening bit:

Fertilizer, whether organic or not, has to be certain chemical compounds to be effective. Inorganic fertilizer is a concentration of just those compounds desired for effectiveness, whereas organic fertilizer (crap) contains far more compounds and bacterias than is needed - some of them potentially harmful.

The same goes for your naturopathy vs developed medicines.
 

Back
Top Bottom