Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[TheL8Elvis]

It's just as irresponsible to be ignorant of the rules dictating behavior of the role you have assumed as it is to consciously disregard them.

You forgot to say 'reckless' too.

Your claim is GZ violated the rules of the neighborhood watch. Can you then point me to the rules for the retreat at twin lakes neighboorhood watch program ?

And no matter how many times you assert his actions were reckless and irresponsible, that doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Wow. It seems the only person in this mess we can take at their word is George Zimmerman. Everyone else is suspect.

And for what it's worth, Owen's expertise has been good enough for other people:

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=easyvoicebiometrics

Buy it yourself and become your own expert. *shrugs*

FWIW - it would have more sway (with me) if the parents would give them a voice sample of TM, and they would say with 90% certainty it was him.

 

[Moss]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

No, they were workign for the media, and we have no reason to question the medias motive in any of this



After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams

Science, FTW. Please pardon me if I remain skeptical of the hard science of software called Easy Voice Biometrics.

I will say, if the screaming is clearly identified as Martin at trial, that probably changes my thoughts on events. (I assume the parents have videos and even his cell phone voice mail to get samples.)

Owen seems well respected in his field with a career of more than thirty years. What reason do we have to suspect that he throws away his professional ethics because he was asked by Orlando Sentinel to form an opinion on that recording?
Easy Voice Biometrics seems to be rather new, but I'm wary of dismissing it just because it has that name. If the concepts and algorithms are correct it might be called Voiceprinting for Dummies and still be a good piece of software.
I'm more wary that it does not seem to have stood under scrutiny in a trial as of yet. At least I could not find a case via search engines. But then again it has to start somewhere.

 

[vwgub]

You weren't responding to what JG said, you were making a 'positive' albeit snarky assertion.
And the evasion plus the ever predictable ad homs add a whiff of desperation.

All those facts and citations, along with asking you to provide proof for your assertions, not the way you want to play?

Too bad, you are in the wrong place to have it your way.

I'll be sure to respond as soon as you produce something that is either correct or useful.

This is to everybody. Not just you. Knock it off.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Owen seems well respected in his field with a career of more than thirty years. What reason do we have to suspect that he throws away his professional ethics because he was asked by Orlando Sentinel to form an opinion on that recording?

Likely none. I was being overly flippant.
But the media has certainly been a key factor in stirring the pot, yes ?

Easy Voice Biometrics seems to be rather new, but I'm wary of dismissing it just because it has that name. If the concepts and algorithms are correct it might be called Voiceprinting for Dummies and still be a good piece of software.
I'm more wary that it does not seem to have stood under scrutiny in a trial as of yet. At least I could not find a case via search engines. But then again it has to start somewhere.

Yes, a great place with lots of free publicity to start ?

 

[crimresearch]

You forgot to say 'reckless' too.

Your claim is GZ violated the rules of the neighborhood watch. Can you then point me to the rules for the retreat at twin lakes neighboorhood watch program ?

And no matter how many times you assert his actions were reckless and irresponsible, that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Errrm... the Neighorhood Watch rules have been done to death... the handbook, the police liason and the 'self appointed' aspect of George's imaginary 'Captaincy', as well as the police stating that he said he was on a personal errand, not patrolling.

 

[johnny karate]

You forgot to say 'reckless' too.

Your claim is GZ violated the rules of the neighborhood watch. Can you then point me to the rules for the retreat at twin lakes neighboorhood watch program ?

You know what, you have a good point. Maybe in the super secret rules of the Twin Lakes neighborhood watch program, "Arm yourself and follow people around for no good reason" is one of the central tenets.

However, that is something other neighborhood watch programs and police department explicitly advise against doing. Perhaps the rule is arbitrary, or maybe, just maybe, it's in place for the safety of everyone involved.

And no matter how many times you assert his actions were reckless and irresponsible, that doesn't necessarily make it so.

I've made my case. Feel free to disagree. But so far, your rebuttal seems to boil down to "Nuh-uh".

 

[Moss]

Funny but possibly irrelevant: The Easy Voice Biometrics domain is registered by Owen LLC. Which happens to be the company of Owens's daughter where he happens to work.

 

[Checkmite]

Some todger has created a @KillZimmerman Twitter account.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Errrm... the Neighorhood Watch rules have been done to death... the handbook, the police liason and the 'self appointed' aspect of George's imaginary 'Captaincy', as well as the police stating that he said he was on a personal errand, not patrolling.

Yes, it's nit picking, but -

In a statement this week, the sheriffs' association referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman," and said it had no record that his community had ever officially registered a neighborhood watch.

No official neighborhood watch = no rules to break.

 

[Checkmite]

Yes, it's nit picking, but -

In a statement this week, the sheriffs' association referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman," and said it had no record that his community had ever officially registered a neighborhood watch.

No official neighborhood watch = no rules to break.

So "self-appointed" is literally true. He called himself the captain of a nonexistent neighborhood watch.

Whacker.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

So "self-appointed" is literally true. He called himself the captain of a nonexistent neighborhood watch.

Whacker.

If this is the word defined earlier in the thread, I agree with it.

 

[RandFan]

fify

Damn. I did it again.

 

[Marduk]

did I miss something somewhere that said Martin was armed and what with ?

 

[Moss]

So "self-appointed" is literally true. He called himself the captain of a nonexistent neighborhood watch.

Whacker.

I admit I kinda lost track of that detail so I have to ask: did he call himself that or was that the media later?

 

[Kestrel]

How did you determine what exactly GZ knows and is thinking?

Zimmerman starts giving his home address to the police dispatcher. Then he mentions that he doesn't know where this kid is. A reasonable assumption is that Zimmerman didn't want the bad guy to know where he lives. And that he believes the bad guy might be in earshot.

What is your explanation for why Zimmerman stopped giving his home address to the police dispatcher at that moment?

 

[sgtbaker]

From the article:

--"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.--

That leaves the possibility of a bystander screaming for help. Maybe even screaming for someone to help Zimmerman.

We still do not know.

If a bystander was screaming for help, it sure would be nice if they came forward to clear up this whole mess.

This new addition is interesting.

 

[Checkmite]

I admit I kinda lost track of that detail so I have to ask: did he call himself that or was that the media later?

IIRC his neighbors described him that way, and gave account of his activities which were very "neighborhood watch"-like, including things like home visits for security "briefings". ABC News reported that in a recent HOA newsletter residents were asked to direct any questions about suspicious persons and neighborhood security-related information to one George Zimmerman.

 

[leftysergeant]

You forgot to say 'reckless' too.

Your claim is GZ violated the rules of the neighborhood watch. Can you then point me to the rules for the retreat at twin lakes neighboorhood watch program ?

Wasn't that little sociopath studying law enforcement in college?

Doesn't that make him one toal sack of fail not to know that he had no grounds to pursue Martin?

And no matter how many times you assert his actions were reckless and irresponsible, that doesn't necessarily make it so.

No matter how many times people may say that the fool acted in a responsible manner, it does not make it so.

He screwed up a police response by deciding to do it his way. The only place he could justifiably have claimed to be aiding the police would be sitting in his truck at the back gate that he claims to have though Martin might have planned to use for his exit from the area.

 

[johnny karate]

No official neighborhood watch = no rules to break.

So Zimmerman assumed the mantle of a role he had no right to, while at the same time eschewing the rules that dictated the behavior of that role. That is responsible behavior.

Power without responsibility. Good gig if you can get it.