Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[crimresearch]

Was gonna edit my post to add a p.s. But will say here, instead:

Sight unheard, I will lay money that the shooter will be able to produce a so-called expert willing to testify that the voice is the shooter's.

Given what was reported in the article, they'd be falling down on the job if they didn't produce someone to rebut 48%.

 

[johnny karate]

Was gonna edit my post to add a p.s. But will say here, instead:

Sight unheard, I will lay money that the shooter will be able to produce a so-called expert willing to testify that the voice is the shooter's.

The forensic's experts cited in the article were indicated to be independent - not working on behalf of the Martin family - so there's no reason to question their motives.

And it's not like these guys just gave the recordings a good listen and made an educated guess. They used fancy science equipment and everything. If Zimmerman's lawyers offer a rebuttal, they had better bring the science.

 

[RandFan]

Was gonna edit my post to add a p.s. But will say here, instead:

Sight unheard, I will lay money that the shooter will be able to produce a so-called expert willing to testify that the voice is the shooter's.

Agreed and I'm not staking a claim. However, could the prosecutors build a more convincing case than the defense. It's true you can buy the testimony you want. The question becomes how reasonable is the testimony? Unfortunately a court of law isn't the scientific community.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Silly redhead!

His death was February 26th, before the time change.

26

Sunrise: 6:54am
Sunset: 6:23pm

So yes, it was dark, and the full moon was Feb 21st.

I knew it didn't make sense given the witnesses who said it was getting dark. Thanks for the correction.

So, it was after sunset. I'm still not buying GZ couldn't see TM on that sidewalk. I'll see what I can find re the back porch lights or area lights at the scene.


I don't see any street lights in the photos, still it's highly unlikely there were not porch lights on every night on that walkway. People wouldn't likely tolerate it being too dark in their backyards at night given there is a walkway there.

 

[RandFan]

The forensic's experts cited in the article were indicated to be independent - not working on behalf of the Martin family - so there's no reason to question their motives.

And it's not like these guys just gave the recordings a good listen and made an educated guess. They used fancy science equipment and everything. If Zimmerman's lawyers offer a rebuttal, they had better bring the science.

Agreed, personally I find the evidence at the moment compelling.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Was gonna edit my post to add a p.s. But will say here, instead:

Sight unheard, I will lay money that the shooter will be able to produce a so-called expert willing to testify that the voice is the shooter's.

Maybe, but they'll need some actual evidence, not made up lies. We are all used to seeing voice recognition patterns on a printout. If they don't match some 'expert' can't just say they do.

 

[johnny karate]

You weren't responding to what JG said, you were making a 'positive' albeit snarky assertion.

Yes, I was. Just not directly to it. I'm sorry if you found that confusing.

And the evasion plus the ever predictable ad homs add a whiff of desperation.

What evasions have I made? Please be specific.

When did I engage in ad hom? Please be specific, and remember an ad hom isn't simply saying "You're an idiot", it's saying "You're wrong because you're an idiot".

Good luck in your search.

All those facts and citations, along with asking you to provide proof for your assertions, not the way you want to play?

What assertions have I made that you feel require proof? Please be specific.

I'll be sure to respond as soon as you produce something that is either correct or useful.

That you might no longer respond to me is a development I find truly crushing, as your approval is the sole reason I post here.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Sweet googly moogly, the term "common sense" just slithered its way in to the thread

 

[johnny karate]

Sweet googly moogly, the term "common sense" just slithered its way in to the thread

Regarding the 911 tape, we have three possibilities:

1) The screams belong to Zimmerman

2) The screams belong to some mystery person

3) The screams belong to Martin

Option 1 has been ruled out.

Option 2 would require the existence of someone that wasn't previously known to exist or mentioned by anyone involved, and for some reason, has not come forward.

That leaves Option 3 as the most logical choice.

If you have an argument to make in rebuttal, don't be shy about sharing it.

 

[epepke]

Silly redhead!

His death was February 26th, before the time change.

26

Sunrise: 6:54am
Sunset: 6:23pm

So yes, it was dark, and the full moon was Feb 21st.

Yeah, this gets funnier and funnier.

At this point, I wouldn't trust most of the participants to tell me the color of orange juice. Seriously, blatantly obvious stuff is being missed by people. This is some serious emotionally-driven thought disorder going on here, and still, self-proclaimed skeptics cannot seem to see this.

 

[crimresearch]

Yes, I was. Just not directly to it. I'm sorry if you found that confusing.



What evasions have I made? Please be specific.

When did I engage in ad hom? Please be specific, and remember an ad hom isn't simply saying "You're an idiot", it's saying "You're wrong because you're an idiot".

Good luck in your search.



What assertions have I made that you feel require proof? Please be specific.



That you might no longer respond to me is a development I find truly crushing, as your approval is the sole reason I post here.

Awww... the 'rehash everything from the last 4000 posts or you are wrong' gambit? And the 'pretend that argumentum ad hominem can only mean insults' ploy?
Let me add 'original' to the list of 'legally correct', or 'factually useful' that I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to produce.

By refusing to engage, I'm not stopping *you* from playing games at the expense of the real people in this real situation, I'm just not going to play them myself.

 

[johnny karate]

Awww... the 'rehash everything from the last 4000 posts or you are wrong' 'substantiate specific claims you made about me' gambit?

ftfy

And yes, that's the "gambit" I'm employing. Quite unscrupulous of me, I know.

Let me add 'original' to the list of 'legally correct', or 'factually useful' that I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to produce.

By refusing to engage, I'm not stopping *you* from playing games at the expense of the real people in this real situation, I'm just not going to play them myself.

Awesome. Good luck to you in all your future endeavors.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

My claim was merely that Zimmerman behaved recklessly and irresponsibly. You are the one who tried to frame it in terms of gun laws and training.

As I never asserted his recklessness and irresponsibility had anything to do with gun laws or training, I have no obligation to defend that position.

You don't have any obligations to answer any particular questions at all.

Feel free to elaborate.

re:Zimmerman acted in contradiction to what the police dispatcher advised him, and in violation of the rules of the neighborhood watch program with which he claims to be affiliated.
As pertaining to the watch program:

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/21/149086792/shooting-renews-debate-on-vigilance-vs-action

"Although Mr. Zimmerman apparently was not part of any official neighborhood watch organization, even if he had been, these folks don't have any more power than ordinary citizens," says Paul Butler, a law professor at George Washington University. "They are not law enforcement officials."

About 25,000 watch groups are registered with the sheriffs' association, which started its neighborhood watch program in 1972. Many other groups are registered with local law enforcement.

In a statement this week, the sheriffs' association referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman," and said it had no record that his community had ever officially registered a neighborhood watch. So it is unclear whether he would have been familiar with the NSA's guidelines.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Have precise times been released for that call and the 911 calls on the night of the shooting?

Yes.

Records show Zimmerman's first call to authorities was at 7:09:34 p.m., followed by seven witness calls at 7:16:11, 7:16:41, 7:17:06, 7:17:15, 7:17:54, 7:18:00 and 7:19:04.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Listen to the background noises on Zimmerman's call the the police. You can hear him open the door of his truck. The wind noises, breathing and footsteps clearly indicate that he starts running after Martin. This dispatcher picks up on this and asks him not to. Zimmerman says OK, but keeps on running for a while. He then slows down, but he hasn't gone back to his truck. He starts to give his home address, then stops and mentions he doesn't know where this kid is, it's clear that he is worried about being overheard. Zimmerman is near where he thinks Martin is when the call to the police ends.

How did you determine what exactly GZ knows and is thinking?

 

[johnny karate]

re:Zimmerman acted in contradiction to what the police dispatcher advised him, and in violation of the rules of the neighborhood watch program with which he claims to be affiliated.
As pertaining to the watch program:

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/21/149086792/shooting-renews-debate-on-vigilance-vs-action

"Although Mr. Zimmerman apparently was not part of any official neighborhood watch organization, even if he had been, these folks don't have any more power than ordinary citizens," says Paul Butler, a law professor at George Washington University. "They are not law enforcement officials."

About 25,000 watch groups are registered with the sheriffs' association, which started its neighborhood watch program in 1972. Many other groups are registered with local law enforcement.

In a statement this week, the sheriffs' association referred to Zimmerman as a "self-appointed neighborhood watchman," and said it had no record that his community had ever officially registered a neighborhood watch. So it is unclear whether he would have been familiar with the NSA's guidelines.

I don't see how Zimmerman pretending to be a neighborhood watch captain somehow makes him more responsible.

Both Zimmerman and his community conferred upon him the title of "neighborhood watch captain". That he might not have had any official association with a national neighborhood watch program is irrelevant.

It's just as irresponsible to be ignorant of the rules dictating behavior of the role you have assumed as it is to consciously disregard them.

 

[sgtbaker]

i can't speak for him her but i don't think that is his point.

fify

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The forensic's experts cited in the article were indicated to be independent - not working on behalf of the Martin family - so there's no reason to question their motives.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

No, they were workign for the media, and we have no reason to question the medias motive in any of this

And it's not like these guys just gave the recordings a good listen and made an educated guess. They used fancy science equipment and everything. If Zimmerman's lawyers offer a rebuttal, they had better bring the science.

After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams

Science, FTW. Please pardon me if I remain skeptical of the hard science of software called Easy Voice Biometrics.

I will say, if the screaming is clearly identified as Martin at trial, that probably changes my thoughts on events. (I assume the parents have videos and even his cell phone voice mail to get samples.)

 

[johnny karate]

fify

A lady posting on the internet? Now I've seen everything!

 

[johnny karate]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

No, they were workign for the media, and we have no reason to question the medias motive in any of this



After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams

Science, FTW. Please pardon me if I remain skeptical of the hard science of software called Easy Voice Biometrics.

Wow. It seems the only person in this mess we can take at their word is George Zimmerman. Everyone else is suspect.

And for what it's worth, Owen's expertise has been good enough for other people:

The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.

Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002.

Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports.