Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Mumbles]

YES! I have the memo where Martin's family asks the Black Panthers to offer a $1MM bounty on George Zimmerman's head, and the blackmail of Spike Lee forcing him to publish the address of the wrong George Zimmerman.

Ha, they may look like they were typed in Microsoft Word, but I maintain they were typed in the 1960s by JFK himself, who was kept on life support just for this purpose, on an IBM Executive model A.

Ah. It's time for the basic talk.

Black people aren't all the same. So if the New Black Panther Party offers a bounty for Zimmerman's head, or if Spike Lee does something dumb on Twitter, this does not reflect on the actions of the NAACP. Or Al Sharpton Much like how the Klu Klux Klan doing something dumb, doesn't reflect badly on the IEEE or Jeff Foxworthy.

 

[tyr_13]

Ah. It's time for the basic talk.

Black people aren't all the same. So if the New Black Panther Party offers a bounty for Zimmerman's head, or if Spike Lee does something dumb on Twitter, this does not reflect on the actions of the NAACP. Or Al Sharpton Much like how the Klu Klux Klan doing something dumb, doesn't reflect badly on the IEEE or Jeff Foxworthy.

People criticized those opportunists capitalizing on this horrible situation. You respond by talking about some people who are not opportunists, and the fact (although I have idea if it's true) that the Martins asked for some of them to address the case. Well the people who aren't acting as opportunists obviously tell us nothing about those who are. The Martins asking for some group to come in doesn't mean the group couldn't be capitalizing on the situation, although I'd give the NAACP some slack on this as I pointed out before.

And of course there are people even you seem to agree are acting 'dumb'. These are the people who were being criticized in the first place.

 

[epepke]

Ah. It's time for the basic talk.

Time for you to learn to read! Or not!

Black people aren't all the same. So if the New Black Panther Party offers a bounty for Zimmerman's head, or if Spike Lee does something dumb on Twitter, this does not reflect on the actions of the NAACP. Or Al Sharpton Much like how the Klu Klux Klan doing something dumb, doesn't reflect badly on the IEEE or Jeff Foxworthy.

I never said it did, so what you are saying is irrelevant.

Are you going to tell me that the Black Panthers and Spike Lee are acting because of requests from the Martin family or not? That was your idea that I was mocking.

Or are you just going to emit more "mumble mumble MLK mumble mumble I Know Black People Are Different Unlike You" pablum down the bib?

 

[Mumbles]

People criticized those opportunists capitalizing on this horrible situation. You respond by talking about some people who are not opportunists, and the fact (although I have idea if it's true) that the Martins asked for some of them to address the case. Well the people who aren't acting as opportunists obviously tell us nothing about those who are. The Martins asking for some group to come in doesn't mean the group couldn't be capitalizing on the situation, although I'd give the NAACP some slack on this as I pointed out before.

And of course there are people even you seem to agree are acting 'dumb'. These are the people who were being criticized in the first place.

Yes, the NBPP is acting dumb. That's what they do. They're a fringe group of street corner ranters and racist goofballs who never add much to anything. Martin's family did not ask for them to help, and they've condemned the bounty.

But the NBPP was not up for discussion. The post I replied to , was about the NRA and the NAACP. The NRA hasn't said anything that I know of, and the NAACP is calling for a fair trial. Why Epepke decided to respond by ranting about the NBPP, is up to him to explain. But I see no connection between them and the NAACP, except they're both mostly black groups.

 

[RandFan]

Right out of Hollywood.

George Zimmerman told police that Trayvon Martin had been brutally beating him and reached for his gun the night he shot and killed the 17-year-old in "self-defense," according to reports.

Hnmmm... where did we hear that before?

 

[leftysergeant]

Every time I hear some fool say that Z had a right to shoot Martin because he was going for the gun, I tell them that it is too bad Martin didn't get it and shoot Z. He would have overcome the trauma eventually, and one less dangerous whackjob would be free to father and abuse kids.

A double-action-only weapon is kind of hard to fire by accident. Z was not going to give Martin a chance to back off. He had to decide to pull the trigger.

Since it was Z who initiated contact, against police advice, and for no valid reason, he owed Martin a chance to back off.

Martin owed him serious bodily harm to correct his crappy attitude.

 

[Cylinder]

Of course, the injury phoo posted earlier is compressed but I'd say it goes quite a way toward reasonable fear of great bodily injury. Of course, there's still the issue of "clean hands" to sort out.

 

[sgtbaker]

First, just because something is legal, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. You have every right to walk into an ethnically homogenous bar and shout epitaphs about that ethnic group. Do not be surprised though, if the patrons of said bar decide to offer you some negative reinforcement for your actions.

In the same way, Zimmerman must have known that his following Martin brought with it the possibility of a negative reaction by Martin, a possibility that might make using his gun necessary. By following him anyway (again, despite what the dispatcher told him), he took an unnecessary risk with his life and Martin's.

Second, yes it does matter what Zimmerman thought Martin was doing. If Zimmerman really thought Martin was engaging in criminal activity, he had to know the risk of a confrontation would be increased in that situation. Since a criminal has more incentive to deal with some clown following him, Zimmerman (in continuing to follow Martin) was practically asking for a confrontation.

This all rests on the presumption that Zimmerman did continue to follow Martin. His claim is that he was going back to his truck. The fact that there was a confrontation proves nothing unless you have evidence beyond your own suspicions. We can argue about it till the sun burns out. The only fact we have about that confrontation is that we don't know who approached who.

 

[Dancing David]

To any legal eagles hereabouts: could all of this media circus actually help Zimmerman?

As in him being so thoroughly examined and hounded by the media that it's impossible to find jurors that aren't compromised?

No, they manage to find people, those who watch TV game shows or play video games all day. Some people never watch the news or read it on the internet.

Most likely they will ask for a change of venue from the county that Sanford is in.

 

[Dancing David]

Yes, the NBPP is acting dumb. That's what they do. They're a fringe group of street corner ranters and racist goofballs who never add much to anything.

Well they are proof that Obama is a racist for not following through on an election intimidation charge dismissed by the Bush administration!

 

[WildCat]

Every time I hear some fool say that Z had a right to shoot Martin because he was going for the gun, I tell them that it is too bad Martin didn't get it and shoot Z. He would have overcome the trauma eventually, and one less dangerous whackjob would be free to father and abuse kids.

A double-action-only weapon is kind of hard to fire by accident. Z was not going to give Martin a chance to back off. He had to decide to pull the trigger.

Since it was Z who initiated contact, against police advice, and for no valid reason, he owed Martin a chance to back off.

Martin owed him serious bodily harm to correct his crappy attitude.

So Zimmerman was wrong, but Bernie Goetz was right?

 

[Checkmite]

This all rests on the presumption that Zimmerman did continue to follow Martin. His claim is that he was going back to his truck.

Still like to know how, if Trayvon took him down with one punch and kept the advantage, they got from Zimmerman's truck to behind the townhouses.

 

[Moss]

Still like to know how, if Trayvon took him down with one punch and kept the advantage, they got from Zimmerman's truck to behind the townhouses.

Going back to his truck does not necessarily mean that he was already near it, just that he went in that direction. Though that might indicate he followed Martin a good distance from his truck.
One thing I have been wondering if Zimmerman might have sustained his head injury or injuries during the fall. Which opens up the can of worms how likely that is.

 

[Kestrel]

Going back to his truck does not necessarily mean that he was already near it, just that he went in that direction. Though that might indicate he followed Martin a good distance from his truck.
One thing I have been wondering if Zimmerman might have sustained his head injury or injuries during the fall. Which opens up the can of worms how likely that is.

GZ may have been going back to his truck, but he was still looking for the ******* he didn't want to get away.

 

[tyr_13]

Yes, the NBPP is acting dumb. That's what they do. They're a fringe group of street corner ranters and racist goofballs who never add much to anything. Martin's family did not ask for them to help, and they've condemned the bounty.

How does the Martins not asking for help from the NBPP make the NBPP less of unethical opportunists? It doesn't.

But the NBPP was not up for discussion. The post I replied to , was about the NRA and the NAACP.

The post you replied to mentioned none of those groups by name at all. If you mean the post you replied to was seemingly replying to, the NRA and NAACP were only held up as examples of groups that might capitalize on the situation, and not exclusive shots. The media was the main thing being criticized yet you've ignored that completely.

The NRA hasn't said anything that I know of, and the NAACP is calling for a fair trial. Why Epepke decided to respond by ranting about the NBPP, is up to him to explain. But I see no connection between them and the NAACP, except they're both mostly black groups.

You're the only one limiting the criticism to the NAACP and the NRA. If you want to defend those groups and say that they shouldn't be included in the category of 'opportunists' by all means do so. But don't straw man the points of others.

 

[Mumbles]

The post you replied to mentioned none of those groups by name at all. If you mean the post you replied to was seemingly replying to, the NRA and NAACP were only held up as examples of groups that might capitalize on the situation, and not exclusive shots. The media was the main thing being criticized yet you've ignored that completely.

Oh. Okay.

Well, at this point, I have nothing further to say. I won't get in the way of anyone such as yourself who wishes to obsess over the NBPP, but I'm not very interested in the discussion.

So you and Epepke have fun.

 

[Mumbles]

Going back to his truck does not necessarily mean that he was already near it, just that he went in that direction. Though that might indicate he followed Martin a good distance from his truck.
One thing I have been wondering if Zimmerman might have sustained his head injury or injuries during the fall. Which opens up the can of worms how likely that is.

But there's another problem - according to police, his supposed reason for leaving his truck was to look for a street sign. How on earth did he then ends up in a glorified alleyway?

And that's not to mention the 911 tape where he states that he's following Martin...

 

[WildCat]

But there's another problem - according to police, his supposed reason for leaving his truck was to look for a street sign.

(citation needed)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This all rests on the presumption that Zimmerman did continue to follow Martin. His claim is that he was going back to his truck. The fact that there was a confrontation proves nothing unless you have evidence beyond your own suspicions. We can argue about it till the sun burns out. The only fact we have about that confrontation is that we don't know who approached who.

The timeline shows very little time between GZ's ending his call to 911 when they told him to stop following TM and the time TM's call with his girlfriend ended.

Given the location of the shooting and the fact there is a clear view down that sidewalk, why do you keep sticking to your belief GZ could have been returning to the SUV and didn't see where TM was at that time?

I don't doubt the evidence you cited that GZ lost sight of TM. That was prior to the time span I was referring to.

The location of the shooting contradicts GZ's claim he was returning to his SUV and didn't know where TM was. GZ would have had TM in sight if he was in that location. A view of TM would have been unobstructed there.

The time between GZ's 911 call when they told him to stop following and the end of the call to the girlfriend was only a couple minutes.

If GZ wasn't making up an incriminating lie he might have said, I saw TM but the operator said to stop following so I did. After I stopped the pursuit TM approached me. That would have been credible. GZ's story is not.

 

[Newtons Bit]

Any predictions on when the witch hunt will end?