Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[sgtbaker]

The initial report has SFD declaring Martin dead on the scene at 19:30 hours.

Don't quote me on that. I was barely able to make out the date and that's probably only because I knew the date it happened, ahead of time. It could say anything. It just looked like 37 to me. I am pretty sure it said 19.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I can't read much of anything but it looks like 19hrs37 the entire time they are in the garage.

I assume it says 19:52 in the garage. The article says 26 minutes after the first 911 call.

19:16
+ :36
-------
19:52

 

[johnny karate]

Yes, it's all a huge conspiracy because the police wanted to protect Zimmerman because ... of something.

Or the police were just mistaken. We're already seeing the walk back from "scalp lacerations" as indicated in the police report because - as we're being told - police aren't medical experts.

 

[sgtbaker]

I assume it says 19:52 in the garage. The article says 26 minutes after the first 911 call.

19:16
+ :36
-------
19:52

That works. It very well could be. Someone needs to fire his attorney because he's not helping. In a tv interview with MSNBC and in the accompanying article it states that he was brought in four hours later.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Is there a handbook for what someone is supposed to look like after a struggle for his/her life? What are the injuries consistent with being in a fight for one's life? Where do they have to be? How deep do they have to be? How purple do they have to be?

Zimmerman just said, according to the police report, that he was punched in the face and had his head slammed into the ground. He [Zimmerman] said nothing about a broken nose, he said nothing about lacerations.

His lawyer said GZ's nose was broken and the laceration needed sutures but the medical provider declined to stitch it by the time GZ was seen the next day.

Meh, it's possible. We don't usually suture after more than 24 hours (because of infection) but if you saw a provider in the morning for a lac from the night before and it needed sutures, they might be used. I still doubt the lawyer's exaggerations.

 

[johnny karate]

johnny karate for one.

I'm looking forward to seeing the quote that backs up this claim.

 

[crimresearch]

That works. It very well could be. Someone needs to fire his attorney because he's not helping. In a tv interview with MSNBC and in the accompanying article it states that he was brought in four hours later.

Aren't we still waiting for ABC or someone to produce the '911 call from Trayvon Martin' that they breathlessly announced a few days ago?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting

According to MSNBC, he did not arrive at the station till four hours after the incident.

It's possible GZ was still at the station and that an interview took place at 4 hours post incident, but he was taken to the station about 30 minutes after the shooting.

 

[crimresearch]

Or the police were just mistaken. We're already seeing the walk back from "scalp lacerations" as indicated in the police report because - as we're being told - police aren't medical experts.

So you admit that you bringing up the term 'lacerations' as a fact was something you now need to 'walk back' from?

Or are you going to try the cheezy trick of pretending that someone else said it?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry, here's the link.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...yer-article-1.1052713?localLinksEnabled=false

Wow, and you wonder why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable. The police refuse to give up on tradition regardless of the scientific research.

“He kept telling them he couldn't see anything because it was too dark,” she said. “He said he couldn't see the race or anything. He never saw a second person. ”

“Then they asked him if he saw what the man was wearing. They gave him a multiple choice question and gave him three colors. He said, ‘I think it was red.’”

Zimmerman, 28, was wearing a red and black jacket. Trayvon, 17, was wearing a grey hoodie.

“Knowing my son, I believe he felt pressured to give the color,” Brown said.

“He really couldn't see anything,” she said. “I think when interviewing a 13 year old you don't give them three options.”

 

[LTC8K6]

So he was actually at the station and being questioned basically about as quick as possible.

 

[sgtbaker]

Or the police were just mistaken. We're already seeing the walk back from "scalp lacerations" as indicated in the police report because - as we're being told - police aren't medical experts.

A cut refers to a skin wound with separation of the connective tissue elements. Unlike an abrasion (a wound caused by friction or scraping), none of the skin is missing the skin is just separated. A cut is typically thought of as a wound caused by a sharp object (such as a knife or a shard of glass).

The term laceration implies a torn or jagged wound. Lacerations tend to be caused by blunt trauma (such as a blow, fall, or collision). Cuts and lacerations are terms for the same condition.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/cuts_or_lacerations/article_em.htm

The term laceration has no implication, at all, on the severity of the wound. You would need a word like superficial, simple, or severe to get a better idea of the severity of the laceration. It's just a word used to describe an injury.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's interesting.

Skeptic Ginger, can you source the claim you made regarding the time span upthread?

It certainly lends more credence to Zimmerman being cleaned up, but it raises the question that if that much time elapsed, why don't we see more swelling from his injuries? Fresh injuries don't always swell up right away, but after four hours... ?

As I posted, it was MSNBC and they zoomed in on the time stamp.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Obviously, merely being followed is grounds to go for the gun but actually being assaulted is not.

You are not being objective here. You can do better.

 

[sgtbaker]

His lawyer said GZ's nose was broken and the laceration needed sutures but the medical provider declined to stitch it by the time GZ was seen the next day.

Meh, it's possible. We don't usually suture after more than 24 hours (because of infection) but if you saw a provider in the morning for a lac from the night before and it needed sutures, they might be used. I still doubt the lawyer's exaggerations.

I saw him say in another video that it did need stitches but by the time they got to the hospital it was too late. In the police report, though, it stated that Zimmerman declined medical treatment.

In the video that I linked, when he was asked if he would produce medical records for the hospital visit he only said that he was not going to try this case in the public (a tad late for that) and that all the documentation would be brought out in court.

 

[LTC8K6]

Just got word from a personally reliable source that a new witness may have cropped up claiming to have seen Zimmerman on top of Martin, beating him up, and that Zimmerman shot Martin while on top of him.

Don't quote me, though.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I actually don't know of any medics that are pre-hospital that are trained to suture. Maybe combat medics, or in the wilderness and very rural areas, but I don't know of any other reason.

Not only that, paramedics are only certified, not licensed. That means they function under very limited protocols. They are not allowed to do just anything, trained or not.

 

[sgtbaker]

You are not being objective here. You can do better.

I am talking specifically about Lefty's claim. Not the actual case.

 

[johnny karate]

What we can't or will never see evidence for is the claim that Trayvon went for his gun. If that were the case, that indicates that he had no intentions of ending this with a gun. If that is the case than he wasn't responding to the beating with a gun. The gun allegedly didn't become an answer until Trayvon allegedly went for it. Supposing that is true, if some magical fairy produced a new witness with video evidence, would he then be justified in using the gun; is that a reasonable belief that his life is now in danger? Have there ever been self defense cases where the "defender" was justified in believing they were going to be killed and responded with justifiable deadly force, without ever having a scratch on them?

You know, at some point while we're all engaging in these mental gymnastics to figure out what Martin might have done to warrant being shot to death, Occam's Razor has to come into play.

Zimmerman is the one with a violent history.

Zimmerman was the one with the gun.

Zimmerman was the one who pursued Martin, who at the time was guilty of the crime of minding his own business while walking home from the store.

In the end, Martin ended up dead.

Now, there certainly exists the possibility that while Zimmerman was innocently following Martin around with a gun, Martin decided viciously attack him for no reason at all before going home to enjoy his Skittles and iced tea.

But for some nagging reason, that version of events doesn't quite wash for me.

The point is, none of this makes George Zimmerman a liar. Even this new one, the fact that his father is now claiming that Trayvon said, "You are going to die tonight." These people may be speaking on behalf of GZ but he [GZ] cannot be held any more responsible for what people are saying on his behalf than Trayvon should be held less of a victim because the media said, on his behalf, that George Zimmerman was never taken into custody, they never took his gun, or the police released him without charging him.

It's about determining what happened, not making George Zimmerman a liar.

 

[crimresearch]

Just got word from a personally reliable source that a new witness may have cropped up claiming to have seen Zimmerman on top of Martin, beating him up, and that Zimmerman shot Martin while on top of him.

Don't quote me, though.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of quoting you, when I can re-Tweet it as coming from Spike Lee.