Blacks are under Attack!

[WildCat]

Which culture? The ancient Egyptians? The Islamic Arabs circa 800 AD (when algebra was all the rage), the Mandinka people of the 18th century, American slaves of the 19th century, the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity, Buffalo soldiers, the Louisiana creoles, the Harlem Renaissance?

You're calling Arabs and North Africans "black"?

 

[kerikiwi]

You're calling Arabs and North Africans "black"?

Would you call Obama 'black'?

 

[WildCat]

Would you call Obama 'black'?

It's his call what he wants to identify with, and he says he's black.

I understand it's common in parts of Europe and some Commonwealth nations to call any non-white person "black", but in the US it's used exclusively to refer to sub-Saharan Bantu ethnic groups. I've never heard Americans refer to Arabs as black, or other North Africans. Or Pacific islanders or Asians or Indians (American or Asian).

Maybe I just assumed bookitty is American and she's not.

 

[Cynic]

To me it seems a more interesting and relevant question (again, to me) might be to examine what current socioenvironmental factors might exist at present and where the resultant pools of relative genetic isolation might lead. Understanding these dynamics goes a lot further toward the goal of deciding if policies like affirmative action and other social engineering initiatives are appropriate and positive.

We like to pretend that "breeding" and "eugenics" are repugnant concepts as applied to human reproduction, and in many respects they are. But the fact is, those concepts exist because the underlying mechanisms of evolution allow them to. Consequently, eschewing looking into what might be happening at the level on moral grounds can as easily lead to a kind of willful negligence as deliberate abuse.

It can be said that monoculture is the ultimate form of genetic isolation and inherently unhealthy. But that isn't to say that all specific instances of sociologically diverse configurations are better, let alone moral. When it comes to intervening in society, a hands off approach isn't going to yield any better results, ethically, than it does for economics.

 

[shuize]

I'm not an expert on thee things, but I've read that everyone with ancestors from outside Africa shares between 1 ~ 4% of their genomes with Neandertals and people with ancestors from Melanesia share an additional 5 ~ 7% of their genomes with Denisovians, another group of extinct humans who were reportedly close "cousins" of the Neandertals.

 

[Beat]

I never claimed genetics has anything to do with a persons' character.

I was talking about the people who notice skin color before they notice significant variables -- if they notice skin color first, it says something about how they see people.

 

[Beat]

I think it's fallacy to argue that there's no genetic basis to race by claiming that the within-race variability is much larger than the between race variability. So what.

The "within-race" variability IS much larger than "between race" variability. Prescribing the word "fallacy" to it will not do anything to reality. Richard Dawkins' pointed out that what people call "race" is only accountable for about 6% of human genetic diversity, and most of our genetic diversity can be found in one "race". I'll have to find the exact book later, since it's been a while.

Isn't it true that our dna differs from chimp dna by some small fraction (1%?) or is this an urban legend.

Yes, but that really doesn't mean much.
Let's keep it basic and consider what a gene actually codes for: a protein. Our DNA is 99% similar to that of chimpanzees, because we contain a lot of the same types of protein channels, g-proteins, histones, enzymes, and any other protein coded by a homolog.
Let's look at an example of a gene that is in question in this thread: TYR.
TYR codes for tyrosinase, a protein that oxidizes tyrosine in the process of melanin formation (pigment!)
Here's the ensembl database entry for TYR.
When we look at the orthologs, we can see that it is 100% similar in humans and chimpanzees.
I would like to add here that if an individual were to lack this gene, they would be albino, not "white." They would have difficulty seeing, repairing extensive damage to their genetic material from sunlight, and some problems with brain functions in certain areas.

An effect size of just .20 would show massive overlap among race distributions, but aggregating that out to population effects, the results would be striking and could potentially explain well-being differences across race.

Pure speculation, and no, it wouldn't explain well-being differences. As I explained above, genes code for proteins, which have specific functions, but they can be used in many ways. Tyrosinase makes melanin, which we usually associate with skin, eye, and hair pigment, but the exact same protein is found in neurons, and it is concentrated in some brain structures. Another example is Na/K ATPase, which is generally associated with neurons, as it maintains a negative membrane potential. It's also in the lumen of the small intestine and many other areas of the body.
You are simplifying genetic variance too much here. Consider the fact that chimpanzees show much more genetic diversity than humans, and their separate cultures are not affected by these differences.

A better way to study differences in well-being in our economic system is to measure gene expression levels pressured by environment. It is not really related to genetics in humans, but upbringing and environmental factors have a much stronger effect. The long-used analogy of DNA as a "blueprint" is false and misleading. Gene expression levels vary based on environment and upbringing.

Epigenetic influences can also directly explain disparities in behavior. In areas with high poverty, women will have children with many mental deficiencies. A great study that established this is the Irish potato famine study.

 

[applecorped]

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/nation/new-black-panther-party-calls-for-bounty-on-zimmerman



"The New Black Panther Party is offering a $10,000 bounty for the person who captures the Florida neighborhood 28-year-old watch captain who shot and killed Martin, an unarmed teenager, last month, according to The Atlanta-Journal Constitution.
"He should be fearful for his life," said Mikhail Muhammad, the Party’s new leader. "You can't keep killing black children."




Helpful......NOT!

 

[leftysergeant]

It can be said that monoculture is the ultimate form of genetic isolation and inherently unhealthy. But that isn't to say that all specific instances of sociologically diverse configurations are better, let alone moral.

Cow cookies. No great civilization has ever arisen in a racially or ethnicly pure population.

When it comes to intervening in society, a hands off approach isn't going to yield any better results, ethically, than it does for economics.

Which is the "hands-off" approach? To leave ethnic groups isolated or to allow their cvo-mingling?

 

[Tatyana]

It's his call what he wants to identify with, and he says he's black.

I understand it's common in parts of Europe and some Commonwealth nations to call any non-white person "black", but in the US it's used exclusively to refer to sub-Saharan Bantu ethnic groups. I've never heard Americans refer to Arabs as black, or other North Africans. Or Pacific islanders or Asians or Indians (American or Asian).

.

Maybe fifty years ago or in the seriously senior citizens, otherwise, no.

 

[Cynic]

Cow cookies. No great civilization has ever arisen in a racially or ethnicly pure population.

I'd certainly tend to agree with your second statement, depending on how you define "great civilization" and how "pure" the population would have to be. How would you classify pre-war Japan in these terms? At any rate, I certainly never meant to imply that such a situation has ever arisen, necessarily, only that such a state would be bad news eventually.

As to your colorful charge of "cow cookies," I'm honestly not sure what you're referring to and would appreciate clarification so that I may clarify, defend, or retract my argument.

Which is the "hands-off" approach? To leave ethnic groups isolated or to allow their co-mingling?

I'm not sure what I meant by that can be answered in either of those terms. Obviously there are many ways to interfere with an isolated group or "allow" intermingling. What I was primarily referring to was the purposeful enactment of public policy by any means toward effecting the ends of whatever is happening in the current system. In other words, if people are exploiting a given subpopulation of a society in a way that they will ultimate cause lasting damage, a hands-off approach would turn a blind eye to it. If two subpopulations are mixing in a way that will cause change, a hands off-approach will do nothing to alter that trend.

To be clear, I'm not in favor of a hands-off philosophy because it so often leads to neglect, but I'm also wary of the who, what, and whys of what action might be taken because it so often ends up favoring those already advantaged.

 

[fuelair]

Sometimes there are no words.

And, sometimes words are not necessary.

 

[fuelair]

I concur. We can say we've done enough over the years but we've not done enough until the disparity is largely erased. And let's get something correct. They are just people. The color of their skin is as superficial as eye color.

Well said - still too many people not following that that one was settled in the late 90s -for those who had not already figured it out.

 

[fuelair]

The bolded is the part I have to question. Disenfranchisement of any eligible voting-adults in the US is so blatantly un-Constitutional, hell, un-American that I'd need examples of this. He mentions "blacks and other minorities"... is he referring to illegal Mexicans?

It should have read (and look up Wisconsin for stats) "blacks, other minorities,students, the poor and many of the elderly".

The point of the laws is to disenfranchise groups likely to vote Democratic by requiring i.d. that many will not have and will have difficulty getting, but reducing non-election days/hours out of day and locations for early voting polling locations, making mail-in ballots harder to get and return on time......

 

[Toontown]

Cow cookies. No great civilization has ever arisen in a racially or ethnicly pure population.

Get real. No "great civilization" has ever arisen.

END PRINT

STOP

Thus, no conclusion can be reached on the basis of the racial and ethnic composition of past and present failures.

 

[leftysergeant]

Thus, no conclusion can be reached on the basis of the racial and ethnic composition of past and present failures.

Would you care to name a civilization that arose in isolation from others that really amounted to much?

 

[Toontown]

It should have read (and look up Wisconsin for stats) "blacks, other minorities,students, the poor and many of the elderly".

The point of the laws is to disenfranchise groups likely to vote Democratic by requiring i.d. that many will not have and will have difficulty getting, but reducing non-election days/hours out of day and locations for early voting polling locations, making mail-in ballots harder to get and return on time......

I see. The key to building a great civilization is to encourage voting by people who have no ID and have trouble getting any.

 

[Toontown]

Would you care to name a civilization that arose in isolation from others that really amounted to much?

Would you care to read my post again, and then name something you consider to be an actual civilization?

No particular reason. I'm just curious to know what you call a "civilization".

 

[leftysergeant]

Would you care to read my post again, and then name something you consider to be an actual civilization?

No particular reason. I'm just curious to know what you call a "civilization".

Sumer, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Ethiopia, India, China, Mali.

 

[Toontown]

Sumer, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Ethiopia, India, China, Mali.

It is to laugh. Brutish aristocracies, one and all, ruled by madmen, ripe for a fall. Built on the backs of slaves, brutalized soldiers, and overworked, overtaxed farmers.

Oh well. At least your standards aren't unattainably high. However, you might want to try reading some human history with comprehension. If you can see the words under the bloodstains.