• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The death throes of a conspiracy theory.

SpringHallConvert said:
Sure, just as much evidence as you can provide of our government truly being surprised by the attack at Pearl Harbor.



Do you have any evidence that shows that the American people would have supported a total war policy against Japan had the attack on Pearl Harbor been thwarted?



Right, that's why your side is losing this debate so far.
Click to expand...

There's been no debate. One side has facts and the other has Ha, Ha, Ha, I cannot hear you.
 
MG1962 said:
Spring your silly little mind games fail because you seem to think that Pearl Harbor occurred in isolation. You have to equally assume the British were in on it because they allowed Japanese forces to attack Malaya the same day.
Even if Pearl Harbor had not occurred, or successfully repelled, the US would still have been in the war because of the invasion of the Philippines the same day. So whatever game you are playing, frankly you are not very good at it
Click to expand...

Fall of Singapore? Never happened. The Imperial Japanese Army was just taking an extended R&R.
 
tsig said:
There's been no debate. One side has facts and the other has Ha, Ha, Ha, I cannot hear you.
Click to expand...

I love how he dismisses all evidence that comes from the government because it comes from the government. And where else would it come? And what if the government produced a message from FDR to Kimmel: "The Japs are coming. Stand down, let them attack. I want a bunch of dead Americans and I hate Arizona anyway." Unfortunately we'd have to dismiss it because it came from the government.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Why? We already know Roosevelt was the kind of scumbag who would allow the building and operating of concentration camps, in which thousands of American citizens were caged like animals, so why would anyone assume he was above sacrificing 2,000 American servicemen to get into a war to save England and the Soviet Union?
Click to expand...

Realistically speaking what could Roosevelt have done to stop the concentration camps from being built in another country almost half way across the globe? And you still haven't disputed the undisputable fact that allowing your enemies to strikeing at you when you have intelligence to prevent said strike is tactically unsound.
 
MG1962 said:
No - and will have to find you a reference, but the original plan was to disable the dry dock completed in '33 (?) And flatten all the supply and support facilities that had been improved through the rebuilding in the 30s
Click to expand...


That would seem to be at odds with the Japanese warrior code of the time, which typically considered only direct military targets worthwhile. The Japanese never sending their submarine fleet after Allied merchant ships in the Pacific, nor considering their own merchant fleet a valuable item that had to be protected, would seem to be evidence of this view.
 
Corsair 115 said:
That would seem to be at odds with the Japanese warrior code of the time, which typically considered only direct military targets worthwhile. The Japanese never sending their submarine fleet after Allied merchant ships in the Pacific, nor considering their own merchant fleet a valuable item that had to be protected, would seem to be evidence of this view.
Click to expand...

That's my understanding as well. USS Neosho, a aviation gasoline tanker tied up to Ford Island during the attack, would have made a flaming lake out of the harbor, but not a single Japanese targeted it intentionally, because it wasn't a combatant.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Why? Where's your proof that the Pearl Harbor attack was truly a surprise to our government? Has all the government documentation pertaining to the Pearl Harbor incident been declassified yet? If not, why?
Click to expand...

If you don't basic stuff like this why do you insist on inserting yourself into the discussion?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Prove it. Put your links into your own words for me. Summarize them. Buttress them by copying and pasting the choice quotes for me. For all I know you're lying about this crap you're linking here.

You're not impressing me at all with this amateur posturing.
Click to expand...

And you aren't impressing anyone with your ignorance of history. There's probably a library near where you live, try using it.
 
MG1962 said:
Spring your silly little mind games fail because you seem to think that Pearl Harbor occurred in isolation. You have to equally assume the British were in on it because they allowed Japanese forces to attack Malaya the same day.
Click to expand...

This is a big problem with this crackpot theory. It doesn't just require the US and UK to allow themselves to be attacked, it appears to require them despite this foreknowledge to do nothing to strengthen their defences for after the attack. It is simply inconceivable that knowing the Japanese were coming the Philippines and Singapore would have been so shambolically defended.
 
Gawdzilla said:
If anybody else wants more info, go to the conspiracy resources links at the top of the forum. My links are there.
Click to expand...

Like I said, you can't make an argument, but you can tell somebody to go read a link somewhere. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a search engine.

So what good are you?
 
MG1962 said:
Spring your silly little mind games fail because you seem to think that Pearl Harbor occurred in isolation. You have to equally assume the British were in on it because they allowed Japanese forces to attack Malaya the same day.

Even if Pearl Harbor had not occurred, or successfully repelled, the US would still have been in the war because of the invasion of the Philippines the same day. So whatever game you are playing, frankly you are not very good at it
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. Why would the British need to be "in on" a conspiracy to allow the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor?

That's stupid.
 
Spindrift said:
I know he hates FDR, but he should read the entire "Day of Infamy" speech, especially this part:



So even if the Japanese had done no damage in Hawaii, the other attacks were more than sufficient to cause the USA to go to war. Does his conspiracy theory mean that all those attacks were allowed to happen?
Click to expand...

No, Mr. Straw Man. It only means the Pearl Harbor attack was allowed to occur.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Like I said, you can't make an argument, but you can tell somebody to go read a link somewhere. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a search engine.

So what good are you?
Click to expand...
When do you ever plan to debate? So far it appears you don't even understand the concept.

Maybe you should post in "Politics", you'll do great there.

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
SpringHallConvert said:
Like I said, you can't make an argument, but you can tell somebody to go read a link somewhere. Trying to debate with you would be like trying to debate with a search engine.
Click to expand...
The links are for people who aren't too lazy to read and not afraid to learn something.
So what good are you?
Click to expand...
You will never find out.
 
tsig said:
There's been no debate. One side has facts and the other has Ha, Ha, Ha, I cannot hear you.
Click to expand...

Show me your "facts". Don't send me on a wild goose chase through a torrent of links. Show me the actual facts. Quote them. Pinpoint their location. Where are they?

Answer: You've got none. You're speculating that at the highest levels of our government, there was no knowledge of where and when the Japanese would strike, especially as that knowledge pertained to Pearl Harbor. I speculate the opposite.

In summary, we're all just conspiracy theorists theorizing about a conspiracy here. Learn to live with it, government truther.
 
Gawdzilla said:
The links are for people who aren't too lazy to read and not afraid to learn something.
Click to expand...

Why are you so reluctant to summarize YOUR OWN LINKS? Why are you so reluctant to HIGHLIGHT THE RELEVANT INFORMATION? Is it because you yourself are lazy? Is it because you yourself haven't read your own links and are just bluffing? Is it because you assume they support your position when you have no idea whether they do or not?

Come on, don't be like all these other government truthers who couldn't debate their way out of a Roosevelt concentration camp. Put something together. Prove your conspiracy theory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom