Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[TheL8Elvis]

You need to wrote more clearly if you wish to avoid miscommunication.

I can't believe you wasted your two posts for the day on this issue

 

[Information Analyst]

Ok - I may have to take a break and go time myself strolling down the street or something.

I did that yesterday walking back from the Post Office a couple of streets away. For the comparable distance to that between the two crossings, Martin would have to have been walking pretty slowly. If Zimmerman had been parked up at the "mailboxes"/left-hand bend, he would have to have been on his hands and knees.

 

[leftysergeant]

Yes, but if you would just read the posts, you'd see that I was just following the thread, and not making a serious post.

Besides, your comment is silly. Shooting someone who is beating the crap out of you is legal.

Not if you start the fight.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Yes, likely because of the eye-witness. I do like the quotation marks, though.

My point is only that it is really bad form for the police to be correcting statements from witnesses. Sure they could ask "Are you sure it was Martin screaming and not Zimmerman?", but they shouldn't be telling a witness that they are wrong in what they heard. Its not good evidence gathering.

Personally I am inclined at them moment to think that self defence is backed up enough at least for reasonable doubt. But it sounds like the police at the scene really screwed things up.

 

[Noztradamus]

0:01 "Ow!"
0:02 "Help!"
0:03 "Ow!"
0:04 "Help!"
0:05 "Ow!"
0:06 "Help!"
0:07 "Ow!"
0:08 "Help!"
0:09 "Ow!"
0:10 "Help!"
0:11 "Ow!"
0:12 "Help!"
0:13 "Ow!"
0:14 "Help!"
0:15 "Ow!"
0:16 "Help!"
0:17 "Ow!"
0:18 "Help!"
0:19 "Ow!"
0:20 "Help!"
0:21 "Ow!"
0:22 "Help!"
0:23 "Ow!"
0:24 "Help!"
0:25 "Ow!"
0:26 "Help!"
0:27 "Ow!"
0:28 "Help!"
0:29 "Ow!"
0:30 "Help!"
0:31 "Ow!"
0:32 "Help!"
0:33 "Ow!"
0:34 "Help!"
0:35 "Ow!"
0:36 "Help!"
0:37 "Ow!"
0:38 "Help!"
0:39 "Ow!"
0:40 Bang!

Really?!

I'm suprised how little GZ was damaged in the attack. Just a bloody nose and a scalp wound - both of which could be the result of TM's first punch (as could be GZ's wet jacket).

Whoever was shouting for the next 40 seconds, maybe TM was just trying to keep GZ from drawing the gun.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

And one witness was "corrected" by the police when she said it was Martin screaming.

Yes, Mary Cutcher. She is 911 call number 6 on the City of sanford site.

MC: "it's a black guy."
Dispatcher: "What do you mean, it's a black guy? that got shot?"
MC: "I don't know"
...
MC: Theres a black guy standing up over him.

Honestly, you really need to listen to her call closely and judge for yourself.

She has professed she knows the truth. (I don't think she is a skeptic.)

She wields her awesome powers of deduction like so (on anderson cooper):
"I heard the crying, and if it was Zimmerman that was crying, Zimmerman would have continued crying after the shot went off."

ETA: not defending the police - it sounds like they may have botched it. I just question anything MC says at this point as less reliable than it could be. She has an obvious axe to grind

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I did that yesterday walking back from the Post Office a couple of streets away. For the comparable distance to that between the two crossings, Martin would have to have been walking pretty slowly. If Zimmerman had been parked up at the "mailboxes"/left-hand bend, he would have to have been on his hands and knees.

I'll only repeat - since he was talking on the phone with his GF, he may have been intentionally walking as slowly as possible, pausing, etc because he didn't want to have the conversation /w his GF while at home. So, I don't completely discount super slow walking. But your point is valid.

 

[crimresearch]

In VA, a magistrate is an independent judicial officer appointed by the Executive Secretary for the Supreme Court of Virginia. Responsibilities include conducting criminal and civil judicial hearings.

We get marriage licenses from the county clerk.

No. Magistrates function as paper shufflers. Other duties mentioned below can include marriage licenses.
The executive secretary for the entire court system, who works for the Supreme Court, oversees magistrates as well. They are in no way shape or form Supreme Court judges.

I'll post the facts and anyone who wants to argue that they don't exist in favor of their own fantasies is welcome to do so.

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courtadmin/aoc/djs/programs/mag/resources/magman/introduction.pdf

MAGISTRATE MANUAL
INTRODUCTION TO THE MAGISTRATE SYSTEM OF VIRGINIA PAGE 14
Office of the Executive Secretary Department of Judicial Services
Rev: 10/11

Statutory Authority
1.In general Virginia Code § 19.2-45 authorizes magistrates:
a. To issue process of arrest in accord with the provisions of Va. Code §§ 19.2-71 to 19.2-82. Virginia Code § 19.2-37 prohibits a magistrate from issuing a warrant or other process in complaint of the magistrate's spouse, child, grandchild, parent, grandparent, parent-in-law, child-in-law, brother, sister, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, first cousin, guardian, or ward;
b. To issue search warrants in accord with the provisions of Va. Code §§ 19.2-52 to 19.2-60;
c. To admit to bail or commit to jail all persons charged with offenses subject to the limitations of and in accord with general laws on bail;
d. To issue warrants and subpoenas under the same power conferred upon district courts. (Rule 3A:12 authorizes magistrates to issue witness subpoenas returnable to district courts only);
e. To issue civil warrants directed to the sheriff or constable of the county or city wherein the defendant resides, together with a copy thereof, requiring him to summons the person against whom there is a claim, to appear before a district court on a certain day, not exceeding thirty days from the date thereof to answer such claim. If there be two or more defendants and any defendant resides outside the jurisdiction in which the warrant is issued, the summons for such defendant residing outside the jurisdiction may be directed to the sheriff of the county or city of his residence, and such warrant may be served and returned as provided in Va. Code § 16.1-80;
f. To administer oaths and take acknowledgments;
g. To act as conservators of the peace;
h. To perform such other acts or functions specifically authorized by law.
2. Specific Authority
a. To issue emergency custody orders pursuant to Va. Code §§ 37.2-808, 19.2-182.9, and 37.2-913;
b. To issue temporary detention orders, pursuant to Va. Code §§ 37.2-809, 19.2-169.6, 19.2-176, 19.2-177.1, and 19.2-182.9;
c. To issue emergency protective orders pursuant to Va. Code §§ 16.1 253.4 and 19.2-152.8;
d. To issue attachment summonses pursuant to Va. Code § 8.01-540, distress warrants pursuant to Va. Code §§ 55-230 and 55-232.1, and detinue seizure orders pursuant to Va. Code § 8.01-114;
e. To issue subpoenas duces tecums pursuant to Va. Code §§ 16.1-69.25 and 19.2-45, and;
f. To issue surety's capiases and bailpiece releases returnable to district courts pursuant to an opinion of the Attorney General to Senator Charles Colgan (1981- 82 VA Op. Att'y Gen. p. 20, April 20, 1982). This opinion further states that only a circuit court judge or clerk of the circuit court may issue a surety’s capias returnable to the circuit court.

 

[triforcharity]

So we do not know in which position he was holding the weapon when it discharged. Freaking brilliant. This sort of thing matters if he is going to claim that Martin was trying to take the weapon away. I hope they at least got the residue patterns from Martin's clothing.

Again, this is being reported, but I don't personally know if that is true or not.

IF that is true, that evidence is forever gone.

I would CERTAINLY hope that Martin's clothing was saved.

The two parts I hilited smell a bit of FAIL, don't you think?

Absolutely. I do know that to be fact.
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/ResponsetoABCNews.pdf

Sounds like someone thinking "Ho,hum. Another dead black thug."

I don't know. But, as I have said many times, Sanford PD is not exactly known for completing good, thorough investigations.

 

[crimresearch]

And the forensics should clarify whose blood was where. One would hope.

What forensics? The ones that weren't done that night?

 

[Information Analyst]

I'll only repeat - since he was talking on the phone with his GF, he may have been intentionally walking as slowly as possible, pausing, etc because he didn't want to have the conversation /w his GF while at home. So, I don't completely discount super slow walking. But your point is valid.

Except that Martin did not ring his girlfriend the second time until around two minutes into Zimmerman's call to the police, around the point Zimmerman said, "he's running." The second call to the girlfriend was some 18 minutes after the first. While it's possible Martin was initially on the phone for some 17 minutes until he was partway down Twin Trees Lane, rang off, and then called the girlfriend again a minute later, it seems unlikely.

 

[crimresearch]

And the forensics should clarify whose blood was where. One would hope.

What forensics? The ones that weren't done that night?

Or the ones from TV where they bring in magic machines and chemicals that show the path of the bullet and every drop of blood through the air in 3-D slo-mo a month later?

 

[Information Analyst]

What forensics? The ones that weren't done that night?

Well, exactly....

Or the ones from TV where they bring in magic machines and chemicals that show the path of the bullet and every drop of blood through the air in 3-D slo-mo a month later?

Yeah, I have a friend who works in fingerprinting. She watches CSI for the comedy value.

 

[Tony]

The thug in this case is Martin.

Blacks guys are always the thugs eh?

 

[crimresearch]

Yes I did read it. Look, I didn't write the article, I didn't write the title of the article (3 Closed Arrests). If it is all made up, don't blame me.

It looks like the 2005-MM-010436-A-O CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE and then there is 2005-CF-009525-A-O CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. I'm not positive, the formatting is lost in that article.


Certain posters were bringing up the fact for dozens of pages that the cop fight was only a non-violent charge. Now that article claims otherwise.

The "with violence battery on law enforcement" charge, if true, is news to me.

I added the ------------ which I believe is where it separates, the formatting is lost in that article, at least on my browser.

http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/2/

You can draw more than one charge from the same incident.
Typically 'resisting without' means yanking your arm away when the cops grab it, 'resisting with' can be the slightest touching thereafter, or even raising your fists... which can technically be 'assault'.
Dropping the latter in return for taking a court ordered anger managment class on the former wouldn't be too unusual.

Also note that in addition to the DV charge, there is the 'working security' incident where GZ apparently got beaten up, and I thought something was reported early on about a vehicle incident that looked like road rage... where he chased someone while calling the cops.

Not the most passive guy in the world, but not exactly Dirty Harry either.

 

[triforcharity]

Who was beating the crap out of him for following him?

Well, if you're a kid, doing nothing wrong, and some creepy guy whom you don't know, and never identifies himself, and begins to follow you on foot, (Possibly even chase {run} after you) would you be in fear?

Just a simple yes of no will more than suffice.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No. Magistrates function as paper shufflers. Other duties mentioned below can include marriage licenses.
The executive secretary for the entire court system, who works for the Supreme Court, oversees magistrates as well. They are in no way shape or form Supreme Court judges.

I'll post the facts and anyone who wants to argue that they don't exist in favor of their own fantasies is welcome to do so.

It sounds like you need to argue with fairfax county and thier fantasies

The county clerk is responsible for marriage licenses in VA.
http://virginia.usmarriagelaws.com/

Just say " I was wrong" and move on.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hr/magistrate.htm

Magistrate Positions

Magistrate, Full-Time
Region 5 – 19th Judicial District – Fairfax

The Commonwealth of Virginia has an opening for a magistrate for Fairfax County. The magistrate is an independent judicial officer appointed by the Executive Secretary for the Supreme Court of Virginia. Responsibilities include conducting criminal and civil judicial hearings. This is a full-time position that consists of rotating shifts including weekends and holidays. Applicants must be residents of Virginia.

Duties and responsibilities include, but are not limited to:

Conducting neutral and impartial hearings related to search warrants, arrests, temporary detentions, and bail
Conducting legal research and analysis
Ascertaining and applying facts to relevant legal principles
Maintaining order and decorum in highly charged, sensitive circumstances
Receiving and accounting for money

 

[LTC8K6]

Blacks guys are always the thugs eh?

in this case

Say, what did you think that part of the post meant?

Or did you just ignore it to get a jab in?

Or what?

 

[crimresearch]

Well, exactly....

Yeah, I have a friend who works in fingerprinting. She watches CSI for the comedy value.

I haven't had a TV for a decade, but even seeing it in a hotel or at a friend's house is too much for me... and the show about Navy NIS running around saving the world by machine gunning people's houses has got to go.

 

[triforcharity]

George zimmerman, son of a VA Magistrate and who was a student attending a local college to study criminal justice, admitted to shooting a 17 year old black male in self defense after he was assualted by the tattooed youth, who was currently staying with his divorced mother in Sanford while serving a drug related suspension from school.

There, I assume no one has a problem with that factual statement either ?

Well, it's not factual.

Did Martin have tattoos?

He wasn't staying with his divorced mother either.

Father.

But yes, that is factual.