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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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Sophomoric baloney. Obviously.

Answer the question. How is James Tague's wound evidence of a 4th shot? I'm counting one head shot, one "magic bullet" shot, one Tague shot. 1, 2, 3. I can count to three, can you?


Many conspiracists [notably Josiah Thompson in Six Seconds in Dallas] concede the Tague hit could be from a fragment of the head shot - after all, two large fragments, comprising roughly half a bullet, were found in the limo, and the dust storm of fragments left in the head were exceedingly minute. That means nearly half a bullet exited the limo.

Now, most likely one of the fragments found in the car caused the damage to the windshield, the other one probably caused the damage to the chrome.

If the two found bullet fragments exited the head with that much force, a third fagment could have flown over the top of the car in the direction of James Tague.

So realistically, we could account for all the damage to all the occupants and to the limo and to James Tague with just two shots.

Howling from Robert in 3, 2, 1...

DENT IN CHROME:
CE349.gif


WINDSHIELD DAMAGE (second photo):
http://home.comcast.net/~the-puzzle-palace/windshield.htm
 
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James "Jim" Thomas Tague (born October 17, 1936, Plainfield, Indiana) was a witness to the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963. He received a minor wound on his right cheek during the assassination. He is the only person, in addition to Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally, known to have been wounded by gun fire in Dallas' Dealey Plaza that day.
\Soon after the shots were fired Tague was approached by a Dallas sheriff detective, Buddy Walthers, who had noticed that Tague had specks of blood on his right facial cheek. (Tague also had a small left facial scab, caused by an unrelated event which occurred a week prior to assassination) The detective asked Tague where he had been standing. The two men then examined the area and discovered — on the upper part of the Main Street south curb — a "very fresh scar" impact that, to each of them, looked like a bullet had struck there and taken a small chip out of the curb's concrete. They came to the conclusion that one bullet ricocheted off the curb and the debris hit Tague. This curb surrounding the scar chip was removed and replaced on Saturday November 23, 1963 (the day after the assassination) and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the Triple Underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tague


Not sure the word "facial" is necessary above, given this all took place in broad daylight between 12:30 and 1:00pm. ;)

Hank
 
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Not sure the word "facial" is necessary above, given this all took place in broad daylight between 12:30 and 1:00pm. ;)

Hank
It was to differentiate between the facial cheek and the cheeks that CT believers can't find with both hands.
 
And your behavior is consistent with...

You would have a chance at getting people to believe this if you didn't respond to my detailed posts with one-word dismissals. When someone describes in great detail why your "anomaly" is really just an ordinary principal of photography that you nevertheless didn't understand, and when your only answer is "Baloney," you don't get to credibly accuse that person of having his head in the sand.

As I said: you're wrong and you know it. You've tried shifting the burden of proof. You've tried changing horses by claiming it's not about expertise but about some allegedly objective observation. Your sophomoric debate tricks have failed. Your evasion of the burden of proof has failed. Your naive expectations have been refuted.

There's a reason you're not credible, and it's not because there's something wrong with everyone else.
 
I would say no to the first, as JFK's head was determined to be canted to the left of the centerline of the limo 17 degrees but also tilted forward at the time of the head shot.

When Robert drew a line through the head, he had a hard time getting it above the horizontal - he knew he had to get that line above the horizontal (higher in the front) because the Grassy Knoll is a good 15-20 feet above Elm Street from where the shot would have been. But even Robert's line is too low to point high enough to get to the knoll, or the overpass. So I suggested perhaps the driver shot him?

Another candidate might be James Tague (he said tongue-in-cheek), but anyone on the overpass would be too high, in my opinion, to fit the forehead entry and right rear exit wound Robert alleged.

Regarding Zapruder and Sitzman, depending on the weapon used, the source of the sound might have been different, but it might not have sounded different, as Lee Bowers said, there is a certain amount of reverberation from the overpass & the TSBD - echoes. So I don't know if we could put that much reliability on two earwitnesses one way or the other.

I know I am comfortable pointing out that the vast majority of witnesses:

1. Heard only three shots
2. Thought all the shots came from the same location (which might have been the knoll, or the TSBD, or whatever).

Very few witnesses thought they came from multiple locations AND thought there was more than three shots. A few of the men on the overpass and Jean Hill are the only ones to come to mind (and to be fair, Jean Hill heard from "four to six" shots. She was undecided on exactly how many.


Hank

She has also claimed there was a small dog on the backseat between JFK and Jackie as well.

So much for irrefutable eyewitnesses.

I do realize that the bowl that makes up that part of Dealey Plaza swirls around sound. I also know that the actual space is pretty tiny. I can see where Zapruder and others would be confused.
 
She has also claimed there was a small dog on the backseat between JFK and Jackie as well.

So much for irrefutable eyewitnesses.

I do realize that the bowl that makes up that part of Dealey Plaza swirls around sound. I also know that the actual space is pretty tiny. I can see where Zapruder and others would be confused.


Most likely she saw a small bouquet of chrysanthemums on the seat beside Jackie and interpreted it as a small dog as the limo moved past. I cut her some slack on that one.

[soapbox]
But as I said before, Jean Hill's worst enemy was Jean Hill. Her problem was she kept adding to her story, but only after she read something new. Then she 'remembered' seeing it. For example, her initial statements never said anything about seeing anyone on the knoll (in fact, she denied it in her TV interview broadcast within the first hour after the assassination. Asked if she saw the shooter, she answered with a 'No'). But years later, after Gary Mack and Jack White colorized the Moorman photo to illustrate the supposed badgeman figure in the Moorman photo, Jean Hill 'remembered' seeing a cop shooting from the knoll. A few years later, when Roscoe White's son (no relation to Jack White, at least, not DNA-wise :)), said his late dad was the cop who shot from the knoll, Jean then 'remembered' the cop she saw was Roscoe White. Etc. Etc. She is the female equivalent of Ed Hoffman (or more accurately, he is the male equivalent of Jean Hill, as she came first).

But that's a point for Robert to consider. How much of what he considers irrefutable eyewitness evidence is, and how much isn't. People see something in a flash, not focusing on it, and then later, interpret it as 'it had to be' this. But it was actually something else. And sometimes they add to their story (consciously or not) because they are influenced by what they read, hear, or or see.

Robert considers only what the witness said, and ignores anything the witness said that he doesn't like. He makes no attempt to fit the disparate pieces into a coherent whole. He doesn't consider that 33-year-later testimony might have been influenced in a number of ways, and might not even resemble what actually happened any more. He just takes the good bits he likes and throws those eyewitness statements out there as if they prove anything with no regard for anything like mutual corroboration or how the pieces fit together or whether there's any material evidence that supports the claim.
[/soapbox]

Hank
 
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And your behavior is consistent with a one-note song entitled 'Ad Homimen Attack" which is your only proven expertise.
Ah ... so now we're getting around to your definition of an expert. Why did I expect that it might be something suitaby spurious?! :rolleyes:

More ad hominoms from a self -proclaimed 'expert". His usual boring one-note song.
Make your mind up, Robert: are you going with 'homimem', "hominom' or 'hominem'? I'd suggest 'ad hom' might be your safest bet!

The body of the model perp is crucial to the conclusion. Obviously, not something you'd like to consider.
Absolutely not. One could simply suspend a rifle, pole or such like from an overhead frame using rope or wire to adopt the exact position shown in the B/Y photos and generate a 9 o'clock shadow. Mmm ... interesting thought ... 9 o'clock shadow. Slightly more growth than the 5 o'clock variety, presumaby!


I've never been a "holocaust denier" nor ever discussed that or anything supporting 9/11 conspiracies. These remarks are not only off point to the thread, not only untruths, but slanderous. An apology and a retraction, please.
Why are they slanderous, Robert? You've demonstrated a mindset wholly consistent with those naysayers!

James "Jim" Thomas Tague (born October 17, 1936, Plainfield, Indiana) was a witness to the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963. He received a minor wound on his right cheek during the assassination. He is the only person, in addition to Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally, known to have been wounded by gun fire in Dallas' Dealey Plaza that day.
\Soon after the shots were fired Tague was approached by a Dallas sheriff detective, Buddy Walthers, who had noticed that Tague had specks of blood on his right facial cheek. (Tague also had a small left facial scab, caused by an unrelated event which occurred a week prior to assassination) The detective asked Tague where he had been standing. The two men then examined the area and discovered — on the upper part of the Main Street south curb — a "very fresh scar" impact that, to each of them, looked like a bullet had struck there and taken a small chip out of the curb's concrete. They came to the conclusion that one bullet ricocheted off the curb and the debris hit Tague. This curb surrounding the scar chip was removed and replaced on Saturday November 23, 1963 (the day after the assassination) and is now in the National Archives. The scar chip was 23 feet 6 inches (7.2 m) east of the east edge of the Triple Underpass railroad bridge, about 20 (6.1 m) feet from where Tague stood during the attack.
Robert, re. the part I've emboldened, how would you describe the thoroughness of the investigation and analysis, and the qualifications of the investigator(s) and analyst(s) that led Walthers and Tague to draw the conclusion that they did? How many other instances of bullets taking chips out of curbs do you suspect Walthers and Tague paid reference to in concluding that that must be the actual scenario witnessed?! :rolleyes:

Robert, you are SO gullible!
 
Most likely she saw a small bouquet of chrysanthemums on the seat beside Jackie and interpreted it as a small dog as the limo moved past. I cut her some slack on that one.

[soapbox]
But as I said before, Jean Hill's worst enemy was Jean Hill. Her problem was she kept adding to her story, but only after she read something new. Then she 'remembered' seeing it. For example, her initial statements never said anything about seeing anyone on the knoll (in fact, she denied it in her TV interview broadcast within the first hour after the assassination. Asked if she saw the shooter, she answered with a 'No'). But years later, after Gary Mack and Jack White colorized the Moorman photo to illustrate the supposed badgeman figure in the Moorman photo, Jean Hill 'remembered' seeing a cop shooting from the knoll. A few years later, when Roscoe White's son (no relation to Jack White, at least, not DNA-wise :)), said his late dad was the cop who shot from the knoll, Jean then 'remembered' the cop she saw was Roscoe White. Etc. Etc. She is the female equivalent of Ed Hoffman (or more accurately, he is the male equivalent of Jean Hill, as she came first).

But that's a point for Robert to consider. How much of what he considers irrefutable eyewitness evidence is, and how much isn't. People see something in a flash, not focusing on it, and then later, interpret it as 'it had to be' this. But it was actually something else. And sometimes they add to their story (consciously or not) because they are influenced by what they read, hear, or or see.

Robert considers only what the witness said, and ignores anything the witness said that he doesn't like. He makes no attempt to fit the disparate pieces into a coherent whole. He doesn't consider that 33-year-later testimony might have been influenced in a number of ways, and might not even resemble what actually happened any more. He just takes the good bits he likes and throws those eyewitness statements out there as if they prove anything with no regard for anything like mutual corroboration or how the pieces fit together or whether there's any material evidence that supports the claim.
[/soapbox]

Hank
This is sad, I realise, but my wife and I were reminiscing over 'memorable' TV adverts of the 70's/80's era the other evening. I recounted an advert for a fragarance, the name of which eluded me
Just Musk
, but the punchline and voice-over at the end was lodged in my memory (the mark of a good advert): "Shouldn't be allowed!", in a very distinct Kenneth Williams nasal-style male voice. Take a look/listen; how right was I?!

It's still amusing to this day! :D
 
I've never been a "holocaust denier" nor ever discussed that or anything supporting 9/11 conspiracies. These remarks are not only off point to the thread, not only untruths, but slanderous. An apology and a retraction, please.


Add "slanderous" to the list of words/terms you don't know the meaning of. Please stopping getting everything wrong, you are making my head hurt. An apology and retraction, please.
 
Sophomoric baloney. Obviously.



Answer the question. How is James Tague's wound evidence of a 4th shot? I'm counting one head shot, one "magic bullet" shot, one Tague shot. 1, 2, 3. I can count to three, can you?

Connoley's separate bullet assertion takes the magic out of the magic bullet.
 
You keep singing this sad song, proving you understand neither the nature of expertise nor what an ad hominem argument is. Your experts aren't really experts. Get over it.

You are the only photo expert in the world. There is no other. We all know that because you have said so.
 
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