Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Giz]

And yet you still haven't produced the law that says you can use deadly force in response to a mere fistfight.

Hmmm, IF you are getting your head bashed into the ground by someone on top of you then you MAY be in danger of serious bodily harm or death. (Flooring someone and then continuing to pound on their head is a little different from a spot of genteel fisticuffs).

 

[bookitty]

So far most reports have said it was carried in a 'waistband' which I find shocking.

Yeah, that really bothers me as well. There aren't many states in which that is legal. However if the gun was properly carried by vehicle to the scene and then given an impromptu waistband holster while Zimmerman was playing neighborhood watch, the local PD may have given it a pass.

 

[Dancing David]

read through this thread. thanks to Giz, sgtbaker, WildCat and others for keeping it sane. They seem to be in the right as more and more facts are trickling out. Some of you should go back and read your posts in the beginning of this thread and be embarrassed.

Uh huh and why Giz?

"t would. What wouldn't be acceptable is attacking the guy who asked that. But then... the kid was in a gang and had been kicked out of school... so he obviously had a habit of making antisocial decisions..."

So where is the evidence that Trayvon was the member of a gang?

 

[Moss]

Am I unskeptical when I am unwilling to buy Zimmerman's testimony wholesale? By the very nature of the homicide we just get one side of that story by one of those involved. So far none of the eyewitnesses seem to have seen how it started.
It looks highly likely that Martin punched Zimmerman and managed to get him on the ground. But whether that means he initiated the fistfight seems to be the point of contention. Whether the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head come from a fall he must have suffered at some point or from a prolonged attack by Martin is something I feel unable to answer. I consider both a possibility.

 

[RandFan]

Hmmm, IF you are getting your head bashed into the ground by someone on top of you then you MAY be in danger of serious bodily harm or death. (Flooring someone and then continuing to pound on their head is a little different from a spot of genteel fisticuffs).

A.) Are these facts? B.) If Martin legitimately believed his life was in danger would he be in the right to defend himself?

 

[Dancing David]

Hmmm, IF you are getting your head bashed into the ground by someone on top of you then you MAY be in danger of serious bodily harm or death. (Flooring someone and then continuing to pound on their head is a little different from a spot of genteel fisticuffs).

I actually agree, banging head on concrete is what I would consider 'potentially very harmful and scary'

 

[crimresearch]

And it will vary widely from state to state and even county to county. My husband is a member of the NRA (and a libertarian, btw) so we get a lot of literature. The 99% that isn't fund-raising is about new laws around the US. It's incredibly diverse.

There are 50 states with gun carry laws, and many local ordinances about brandishing that are distinct from CCW.

The wording is similar enough for legal purposes, and there is no evidence to support the very specific claim about CCW permit holders being required to 'securely encase' their weapon everytime they enter a vehicle.

 

[Giz]

Fatboy had no right to be blocking Martin's way home. He needed his brains bashed out.

Lefty, do pedestrians ever get get in your way and ask you questions? And if so, roughly how many do you kill per week?

 

[lionking]

So where is the evidence that Trayvon was the member of a gang?

Black, hoody, stands to reason.

Seriously Giz should confirm or withdraw.

 

[crimresearch]

So far most reports have said it was carried in a 'waistband' which I find shocking.

Why? That is a pretty standard holster arrangement.

 

[RandFan]

Lefty, do pedestrians ever get get in your way and ask you questions? And if so, roughly how many do you kill per week?

Giz, how many people confront you with a gun?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Fatboy had no right to be blocking Martin's way home. He needed his brains bashed out.

We can both do this, you know:
Thug had no right to beat Zimmerman to the ground. He needed his brains blown out.

 

[Giz]

A.) Are these facts? B.) If Martin legitimately believed his life was in danger would he be in the right to defend himself?

A) These are NOT facts. This, like most of this thread, is speculation.

B) Either side MAY have felt that they were defending themselves. I have yet to see compelling proof of either/both/neither side being innocent/at fault. I have seen a lot of jumping to conclusions.

IMHO, so far one can make up various hypotheticals, fitting the few "known facts", that either damn or justify Zimmerman. We need more data. (And a better 4th estate).

 

[crimresearch]

Yeah, that really bothers me as well. There aren't many states in which that is legal. However if the gun was properly carried by vehicle to the scene and then given an impromptu waistband holster while Zimmerman was playing neighborhood watch, the local PD may have given it a pass.

OK, you are flatly contradicting yourself. First you said that it was illegal for a CCW holder to carry so that the gun could be seen, then to carry in a car, now you are claiming it is *illegal* for a CCW holder to carry in an inside the waistband holster?

I'm calling bovine excrement. Please start providing links for these things.

 

[crimresearch]

Hmmm, IF you are getting your head bashed into the ground by someone on top of you then you MAY be in danger of serious bodily harm or death. (Flooring someone and then continuing to pound on their head is a little different from a spot of genteel fisticuffs).

If and may are exactly my point.

 

[RandFan]

A) These are NOT facts. This, like most of this thread, is speculation.

B) Either side MAY have felt that they were defending themselves. I have yet to see compelling proof of either/both/neither side being innocent/at fault. I have seen a lot of jumping to conclusions.

IMHO, so far one can make up various hypotheticals, fitting the few "known facts", that either damn or justify Zimmerman. We need more data. (And a better 4th estate).

Thanks. Thus far I have only expressed anger at what seems to me to be a bad law and bad decisions made by Zimmerman. I honestly don't know that the law was bad or that Zimmerman did anything untoward. In short I agree with you.

 

[Checkmite]

We can both do this, you know:
Thug had no right to beat Zimmerman to the ground. He needed his brains blown out.

Then why did Zimmerman shoot him in the chest?

See, the Big Z comes out bad in this no matter how you look at it.

 

[leftysergeant]

We can both do this, you know:
Thug had no right to beat Zimmerman to the ground. He needed his brains blown out.

********. A whackjob had just tracked him down for no good reason. It was clear that the stalker meant him harm, because there was no legitimate reason for him to have made contact. He had, under Florida law, the right to use whatever force neccessary to defend himself. You don't have to wait for an attacker to hit you. Fair fights are for suckers.

 

[Giz]

Giz, how many people confront you with a gun?

Where on earth do you get that from? Is there any report that the gun was drawn (or used to threaten) before the actual moment of the shooting?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

********. A whackjob had just tracked him down for no good reason. It was clear that the stalker meant him harm, because there was no legitimate reason for him to have made contact. He had, under Florida law, the right to use whatever force neccessary to defend himself. You don't have to wait for an attacker to hit you. Fair fights are for suckers.

You realize your entire post can apply to either GZ or TM, right ?