Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Unabogie]

Another internet forensics expert!

Can I ask you a favor? This is a really emotional subject for me and a lot of people here. A teenager was shot for no reason, and his parents are grieving. I don't know if you have some strong identification with George Zimmerman and you're just playing devil's advocate, but can you try to back off with the hostility and snark? I don't think I can engage with you if you're going to act this way.

This story feels like a punch in the gut to me.

 

[Unabogie]

How would his friend know? Did Zimmerman tell him?

Apparently not, so I can only go by what I hear. I'll back off this claim (that his friend agrees on what was said). His friend doesn't hear "cones", but "cones" makes no sense anyway. I hear "coons" and until another interpretation fits better, I'm sticking with my lying ears.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/...-of-endearment-before-killing-trayvon-martin/

 

[johnny karate]

How does he call in Martn's location if he doesn't know where he is? How does he know where he is without following him?

You seem to be overlooking the fact that Zimmerman wasn't supposed to be following Martin, and especially not with a gun. He exceeded both the guidelines of his neighborhood watch program and the advisement of the police.

If Zimmerman's only intention was report Martin's location, he could have easily done that from his car as he knew he was supposed to. Instead, he chose to arm himself and pursue Martin. You don't get to flout the rules and then expect the benefit of the doubt regarding your intentions.

 

[bynmdsue]

Who the hell says "coons" anymore?

 

[Unabogie]

Who the hell says "coons" anymore?

The man who shot Trayvon Martin?

 

[Noztradamus]

Who the hell says "coons" anymore?

Who the hell says "goons" anymore? (Apart from C Montgomery Burns)

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You seem to be overlooking the fact that Zimmerman wasn't supposed to be following Martin, and especially not with a gun. He exceeded both the guidelines of his neighborhood watch program and the advisement of the police.

If Zimmerman's only intention was report Martin's location, he could have easily done that from his car as he knew he was supposed to. Instead, he chose to arm himself and pursue Martin. You don't get to flout the rules and then expect the benefit of the doubt regarding your intentions.

I don't understand. We've already covered GZ following TM. It's legal. He wan't given any kind of legal order not to follow him. If the police did not want him to do it, they could clearly have stated 'do not follow him' - yet they didn't.
So, can you stop lying, please ? Couching it in terms of advisement is dishonest.

What rule did GZ flout ? The don't follow people in your subdivision rule ?

 

[Kestrel]

As a thought experiment, pretend that the victim's name was Tricia Martin. A 17 year old while female the same height and weight as Trayvon was wearing a hoodie and walking in the rain. Does George Zimmerman's story make a bit of sense absent the cultural assumptions we have regarding young black males?

 

[crimresearch]

The man who shot Trayvon Martin?

CNN beat that to death, playing the word that starts with a fricative and has a long 'o' over and over after cleaning up the recording.

The reporter claims 'it sure sounds like the racial slur to me' to which their own audio expert says 'I wouldn't testify to it in court', at which point CNN declares it 'a mystery'.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-isolates-audio-on-alleged-‘fcking-cns’-trayvon-martin-911-call/

 

[Unabogie]

CNN beat that to death, playing the word that starts with a fricative and has a long 'o' over and over after cleaning up the recording.

The reporter claims 'it sure sounds like the racial slur to me' to which their own audio expert says 'I wouldn't testify to it in court', at which point CNN declares it 'a mystery'.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-isolates-audio-on-alleged-‘fcking-cns’-trayvon-martin-911-call/

The question then becomes, what other word fits? It's like Rick Santorum saying "black people" and then claiming he said "blah people". What? What would that even mean? Likewise, aside from "*********** goons", I can't think of another phrase that sounds the same and makes any sense.

If he did say "*********** goons", then it's not much better, since the issue is that Zimmerman ran after Martin, swearing and calling him names, for nothing. Martin didn't do anything and there was no crime that Zimmerman was mistaking Martin for (as in a black male robbed a liquor store and Martin fit the description). Zimmerman was angry at Martin for some unknown reason. For no reason. Because of racism, IMHO. He swore at him twice before setting off to find him while packing a gun and that speaks volumes to me.

 

[Darth Rotor]

If this has already been asked, forgive me. Been a few days since I peeked at this thread:

What about Martin's Stand Your Ground rights in this matter? (OK, he's dead right depending upon how you look at this).

If he felt he was being threatened by some stranger following him ... does his Stand Your Ground rights not have equal standing with Zimmerman's rights?

Again, if you guys covered this in the past few days, sorry to bring it up again.

 

[This is The End]

What previous conviction? Zimmerman had no convictions.

And do you think just any previous conviction can be brought up in a trial, or will the prosecution have to show that it's relevant to the current case?

Read my post again, you are responding to something completely different. We already agreed it was an arrest without a conviction yesterday.

 

[crimresearch]

If this has already been asked, forgive me. Been a few days since I peeked at this thread:

What about Martin's Stand Your Ground rights in this matter? (OK, he's dead right depending upon how you look at this).

If he felt he was being threatened by some stranger following him ... does his Stand Your Ground rights not have equal standing with Zimmerman's rights?

Again, if you guys covered this in the past few days, sorry to bring it up again.

If it had been a SYG situation, Martin had every right to be going toward the place he was visiting. And he had every right to take shortcuts or whatever if he reasonably thought he was being followed.

Zimmerman wasn't commiting trespass either, because under Florida law, you have to be ordered off the property and refuse.
But his claim to have a right to be in people's back yards (based on 911 calls) isn't as strong as Martin's.

But again, this has nothing to do with SYG, the issue is simply if Zimmerman's plain old ordinary pre-SYG self defense 'fear for my life' claim is believable.


If it isn't, then SYG won't help him, if it is, then SYG is moot.

 

[This is The End]

bolding mine:

I'm no expert in blood splatter, but if he'd shot Martin while Martin was on top of him - in the chest, mind you - there's be no doubt about the blood. He'd be covered in it and would never appear dry and clean, even with a red sweatshirt.

Another internet forensics expert!

I don't think there are many experts in fields related to this investigation here, percentage-wise. Or that being one was a requirement for posting in this thread. I like to hear everyone's opinions. Sometimes it can shed light on something maybe even an expert didn't think of.

 

[This is The End]

I don't understand. We've already covered GZ following TM. It's legal. He wan't given any kind of legal order not to follow him. If the police did not want him to do it, they could clearly have stated 'do not follow him' - yet they didn't.
So, can you stop lying, please ? Couching it in terms of advisement is dishonest.

What rule did GZ flout ? The don't follow people in your subdivision rule ?

Did you even listen to the phone call? Listen do how the police dispatcher says the words. It sounds like a very serious suggestion to me.

"We don't need you to do that [follow him]."


Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Z: Yeah
Dispatcher: OK, we don't need you to do that.


I strongly suggest listening to this clip for 20 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk#t=1m37s

That link is set to start at 1:37 automagically.

 

[crimresearch]

The question then becomes, what other word fits? It's like Rick Santorum saying "black people" and then claiming he said "blah people". What? What would that even mean? Likewise, aside from "*********** goons", I can't think of another phrase that sounds the same and makes any sense.

If he did say "*********** goons", then it's not much better, since the issue is that Zimmerman ran after Martin, swearing and calling him names, for nothing. Martin didn't do anything and there was no crime that Zimmerman was mistaking Martin for (as in a black male robbed a liquor store and Martin fit the description). Zimmerman was angry at Martin for some unknown reason. For no reason. Because of racism, IMHO. He swore at him twice before setting off to find him while packing a gun and that speaks volumes to me.

Goons doesn't have a long 'o' or the 'f' fricative.

'Phones' does, and it comes after the clear sound of the phone mic being bumped.

 

[This is The End]

If he did say "*********** goons", then it's not much better, since the issue is that Zimmerman ran after Martin, swearing and calling him names, for nothing.

Someone else posted another link than me to a clip where it sounds like PHones. Either they got it from a different source than my clip or their source or mine was suspicious. I used the youtube source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk#t=1m37s

It is definitely a K sound in the clip I made:

OK I uploaded what I did so others can hear.

Full disclosure, I increased the sound by about 3 times and I made it about 10 percent slower. Nothing else was done to this sample.

http://www.filedropper.com/unknownword

It surely starts with a K sound. It's either cones, or coons said with an accent.

(LOTS of ads on that uploading site, please only click where it says Download This File in dark grey.)

 

[This is The End]

Goons doesn't have a long 'o' or the 'f' fricative.

'Phones' does, and it comes after the clear sound of the phone mic being bumped.

Yes it can. Coons and goons can sound both ways. The normal way, and to rhyme with phones and cones. In a southern, or bayou accent especially.

Do we have any extensive voice samples from Z to determine his normal accent?

ETA: bolded

 

[Unabogie]

Goons doesn't have a long 'o' or the 'f' fricative.

'Phones' does, and it comes after the clear sound of the phone mic being bumped.

What would that mean? The context makes zero sense to me. He had already called him an a hole.

 

[crimresearch]

Did you even listen to the phone call? Listen do how the police dispatcher says the words. It sounds like a very serious suggestion to me.

"We don't need you to do that [follow him]."


Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Z: Yeah
Dispatcher: OK, we don't need you to do that.


I strongly suggest listening to this clip for 20 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk#t=1m37s

That link is set to start at 1:37 automagically.

You may be imprinting in hindsight. There is no evidence that the dispatcher knew the future outcome, so his words read equally as 'We'll take it from here' out of concern for the caller getting hurt by the suspicious person. Or both.

It carries a little weight if there is a trial in that it subtracts from the reasonableness of a potential claim by Zimmerman that he needed to help the police.