Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Noztradamus]

According to Zimmerman on that tape, Traynor ran. It doesn't seem to have occurred to Zimmerman that Traynor was frightened of being followed.

Confirmation bias "There's a real suspicious guy. This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something,”

 

[anglolawyer]

This gated community, was Trayvon allowed to be there? Had he climbed over a wall or something?

 

[triforcharity]

No one said a citizen's arrest had anything to do with this case.

I'm fully aware of that. Since you're one of the posters in this little sidebar that we have going on, let me explain this to you.

Florida does not have a provision for citizens arrest for anything other than misdemeanors or breaches of peace in your physical presence. It only allows you to detain someone until the police arrive, and prevents you from being prosecuted.

BTW, this was a question posed by Skeptic Ginger, that you answered incorrectly.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8136800#post8136800

There's the post.

Do try to follow along.

BTW, I've been following this story since the day I heard about it, have followed it as closely as I can, and have a vested interest in the case's outcome. If you want to discuss the case, fine by me. But, if someone posts something that you don't like, don't jump down their throat. I mearly pointed out that Florida doesn't have a CA statute that specifically allows it under any circumstance.

Do you have any facts you want to discuss, or opinions you want to voice? If so, please feel free to do so. If not, let the other posters discuss it. Don't jump down my throat for answering a question, and correcting you.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

This gated community, was Trayvon allowed to be there? Had he climbed over a wall or something?

He was staying at his dads house, so yeah. A question though; How does it work with these gated communities? Aren't strangers allowed to drive on the roads there, unless they are privately owned ofc?

 

[ravdin]

This gated community, was Trayvon allowed to be there? Had he climbed over a wall or something?

"Gated community" is most likely something of a misnomer. There are neighborhoods in that part of Florida where you would need a pass to open a barrier to drive in. My girlfriend's father lives in one near Orlando, and the last time I was there the guard waved us through without checking for ID (apparently a white couple in their late 30s without hoodies doesn't arouse much suspicion).

In any case, the sidewalks are open and I'm pretty sure it's public property. I don't think anyone's accused Trayvon of trespassing or suggested he was not authorized to be where he was.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm fully aware of that. Since you're one of the posters in this little sidebar that we have going on, let me explain this to you.

Florida does not have a provision for citizens arrest for anything other than misdemeanors or breaches of peace in your physical presence. It only allows you to detain someone until the police arrive, and prevents you from being prosecuted.

BTW, this was a question posed by Skeptic Ginger, that you answered incorrectly.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8136800#post8136800

There's the post.

Do try to follow along.

BTW, I've been following this story since the day I heard about it, have followed it as closely as I can, and have a vested interest in the case's outcome. If you want to discuss the case, fine by me. But, if someone posts something that you don't like, don't jump down their throat. I mearly pointed out that Florida doesn't have a CA statute that specifically allows it under any circumstance.

Do you have any facts you want to discuss, or opinions you want to voice? If so, please feel free to do so. If not, let the other posters discuss it. Don't jump down my throat for answering a question, and correcting you.

I stand by my answer entirely.

There is no mention of citizen's arrests in Florida's criminal statutes but state courts have cited common law in establishing when such an arrest can be made. The crime has to be a felony. It has to be witnessed by the citizen making the arrest or the citizen has to have probable cause that the person being arrested is guilty of a felony.

Orlando criminal defense attorney Patrick Cairns said members of the militia face a high legal hurdle in taking such action since they didn't witness a crime. They could be charged with false imprisonment if they detain Zimmerman.

"You do a citizen's arrest only if you think the cops aren't going to get there in time and you're afraid somebody is going to leave the scene," Cairns said.

http://www.newser.com/article/d9th7...a-community-watch-leader-who-killed-teen.html

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
There is absolutely no evidence thus far that Zimmerman intended to chase down Martin and detain him.

Yes there is and you are now dismissing that evidence in favor of your own confirmation bias.

 

[triforcharity]

Incorrect
In the case of Single Action(DA) or DA/SA, operating the slide will load a round into the chamber and cock the gun ready to fire. (Single Action). With DA/SA, the gun can then be "decocked". Now a long heavy trigger pull will cock the gun and fire it (Double Action) - after firing another round will be loaded and the gun will be cocked (The Single Acrion mode)

With Zimmerman's DAO KelTec the only way to cock the gun is to pull the trigger (Double Action Only). After firing, another round will be loaded, but the gun will be uncocked.

I was trying to keep it as simple as possible. Since there is no external hammer on the Ket Tec PF9, it wouldn't need to be physically cocked like an old single action revolver in a John Wayne movie.

But yes, you're correct, in the more complicated sense.

 

[crimresearch]

"Gated community" is most likely something of a misnomer. There are neighborhoods in that part of Florida where you would need a pass to open a barrier to drive in. My girlfriend's father lives in one near Orlando, and the last time I was there the guard waved us through without checking for ID (apparently a white couple in their late 30s without hoodies doesn't arouse much suspicion).

In any case, the sidewalks are open and I'm pretty sure it's public property. I don't think anyone's accused Trayvon of trespassing or suggested he was not authorized to be where he was.

Agree that 'gated' doesn't always means 'gated.

It appears to in this case,though.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...ds-outside-the-gated-the-news-photo/141625500


Note the official Neighborhood Watch sign... the Neighborhood Watch whose rules Zimmerman was violating on several points.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

He was staying at his dads house, so yeah. A question though; How does it work with these gated communities? Aren't strangers allowed to drive on the roads there, unless they are privately owned ofc?

In my mother's gated community (she is now deceased) the gate was open during the day but closed at dusk. However, there was not a through road. If one entered through the gate, one could only go to houses within the community.

You could, however, walk through the community on your way to other neighborhoods at any time, day or night.

 

[a_unique_person]

The evidence shows Zimmerman telling the police dispatcher that Martin ran. By the time the call ended over 30 seconds later Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police near the mailboxes when they arrived. He tells the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrive.

There is absolutely no evidence thus far that Zimmerman intended to chase down Martin and detain him.

So how did he catch up to him and kill him? Trayvon was making a beeline for his destination, and trying to avoid a confrontation.

 

[WildCat]

Yes there is and you are now dismissing that evidence in favor of your own confirmation bias.

What evidence is there SG? It certainly hasn't been presented in this thread thus far.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maybe the police did do their job properly:

WFTV also learned on Friday that Sanford police did recommend Trayvon Martin’s killer, George Zimmerman, be charged, possibly with manslaughter, but it didn't happen.

And, on Friday, staffers with State Attorney Angela Corey suggested to WFTV’s Daralene Jones that a grand jury may not be involved in the case.

Several sources confirmed for WFTV that Sanford police thought Zimmerman should have been arrested for shooting and killing 17-year-old Martin.

Sources said Sanford police recommended State Attorney Norm Wolfinger review a possible manslaughter charge against Zimmerman.

“Several sources have confirmed for us that Sanford police turned over an investigative summary packet that included a charge of manslaughter.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/trayvon-martin-case-sources-tell-wftv-police-wante/nLbjr/

 

[WildCat]

So how did he catch up to him and kill him? Trayvon was making a beeline for his destination, and trying to avoid a confrontation.

We don't know enough details at the moment. But I find it hard to believe that a fat guy like Zimmerman (5'9", 240lbs) is going to chase down a 6'3" (or 6'0", depending on what story you read) 160 lb athlete.

 

[triforcharity]

This gated community, was Trayvon allowed to be there? Had he climbed over a wall or something?

Martin was staying with his father, and his father's girlfriend. He was allowed to be there.

 

[triforcharity]

I stand by my answer entirely.



http://www.newser.com/article/d9th7...a-community-watch-leader-who-killed-teen.html

I cited two different articles that PROVE your claim to be INCORRECT. Take it up with the COURTS who UPHELD the law in the state of Florida.

Do you want me to post them again, or can you find them on your own?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8137218#post8137218

Here's the link to my post. Go read the links, then tell me that I am still wrong. I mean, really. I am citing the Appeals Courts of the State of Florida. Did they get it wrong? Really?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

We don't know enough details at the moment. But I find it hard to believe that a fat guy like Zimmerman (5'9", 240lbs) is going to chase down a 6'3" (or 6'0", depending on what story you read) 160 lb athlete.

And that's why the former shot the latter.

 

[Ian]

I'm with triforcharity on this one. I spent a few years working for another agency in Florida answering 911 calls. Too many people are jumping to conclusions here with too few facts.

 

[WildCat]

And that's why the former shot the latter.

So you think he shot him at a distance?

 

[triforcharity]

So you think he shot him at a distance?

I certainly believe so.

If he had shot him at point blank range, he would have been covered and blood. The officer whom put handcuffs on him, made mention of his sweater being wet, and covered with grass, but not a single mention of blood.

Why would he mention grass and water, but not blood, in an incident that killed someone?

Maybe because........ ( I sincerely hope you answer this logically WC. I know you're a damn smart guy, and seem very logical. )