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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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I've noticed that about SnakeTongue: for the stuff we post, documentary proof is required (even for things in actual published books with full and proper citations). However, for the stuff he posts, things found on completely unsourced Eastern European websites is all the "proof" necessary.
And, like other deniers, he requires the documentary material in special formats (video) or Internet available.

For his stuff, an undated, unsourced photo, for example, is taken as conclusion proof of whatever claim he wants to make about it. A ready-made proof without the need, he thinks, for him to say anything beyond posting it.

For other matters, like brothels in the camps, cherrypicking what he posts about them is good enough for SnakeTongue - leaving out any material counter to the claim he makes, which, inevitably, is at odds with the omitted points and evidence.
 
Different from you, I do not give the Jews this special treatment, which is typically supported by Holocaust proponents

Man, in the span of a week, you have gone from "Himmler? Who is he?" to knowing what stances typically come up in arguments about whether or not the Holocaust happened! How did you do it, man?? Are you jacked into the Matrix, or something??

Or maybe less than honest about why you are here?
 
" I do not give the Jews this special treatment..."

You'd like to, though. Right?
 
ANTPogo said:
A denier? Being less than honest?! Say it isn't so!

Snaketongue and the most recent denier who joined the Skeptic Society's anti-holocaust denial forum are both non-english speakers. I had incorrectly thought that there may be a last ditch spurt of junior holocaust english speaking deniers, reacting to Caroline Coll's Treblinka investigations. This didn't seem to happen. If anything the trickle of new deniers has simply reduced to a drip. I'm now guessing that, like any withering cult, the last vestiges of the cult is found in obscure niches, in non-english and non-german speaking areas around the world. They read CODOH and think "this is easy" not realising CODOH is a propaganda site for rich holocaust authors to make money selling books to the naive.

Bradley Smith seeks donations to keep his operation going and for him to place pro-holocaust denial adverts in campus newspapers. No accounting is offered as to how the money is spent or if expenses match donations. It is a much smaller version of the Bakker's PTL scam. He says he needs to raise $100 for an advert. $300 is donated. He pay $100 for the advert and pockets the rest and then launches another donation appeal.

Holocaust denier, David Duke has already been to gaol once for doing this scam concerning presidential campaign donations. David Irving probably recanted with an eye on future publishing revenue. It is all about a handful of deniers making money of naive individuals. History has nothing to do with holocaust denial. This is why Clayton Moore is so amusing as he attacks the normal media for doing something his cult's "media" specifically does.
 
Snaketongue and the most recent denier who joined the Skeptic Society's anti-holocaust denial forum are both non-english speakers. I had incorrectly thought that there may be a last ditch spurt of junior holocaust english speaking deniers, reacting to Caroline Coll's Treblinka investigations. This didn't seem to happen. If anything the trickle of new deniers has simply reduced to a drip. I'm now guessing that, like any withering cult, the last vestiges of the cult is found in obscure niches, in non-english and non-german speaking areas around the world. They read CODOH and think "this is easy" not realising CODOH is a propaganda site for rich holocaust authors to make money selling books to the naive. . . . History has nothing to do with holocaust denial. This is why Clayton Moore is so amusing as he attacks the normal media for doing something his cult's "media" specifically does.
I was pegging SnakeTongue as Bob, but maybe not. If so, however, the withering is even more pronounced. That said, I think you're spot on. They come out of wherever they pick this stuff up full of bravado and confusion, and then many of them go silent rather quickly. They have nothing going for them and relying on old classics lands them in heaps of trouble.
 
I was pegging SnakeTongue as Bob, but maybe not.

I went over to the Skeptics Society forum to have a look, and they do share some remarkable similarities, don't they? Right down to the same innocuous "Can someone give me some proof?" first post, the same refusal to accept books or articles, and the same in-depth knowledge of all the denier canards found on denier websites.
 
I went over to the Skeptics Society forum to have a look, and they do share some remarkable similarities, don't they? Right down to the same innocuous "Can someone give me some proof?" first post, the same refusal to accept books or articles, and the same in-depth knowledge of all the denier canards found on denier websites.

I also first thought Bob and Snaketongue were the same person. However Snaketounge talks about panzers which Bob did not. Bob, on the Skeptic Society forum simply started his attack on the premise that all eyewitnesses were frauds and went on from there.

I take my hat off to Lemmy for arguing with David on that forum. It is hard work and it wore me out after five years. As a general rule when new holocaust deniers join the Skeptic Society forum I tried to redirect them here, as JREF's member have the wider knowledge base and I get to read fresh answers that are beyond my personal skill level.
 
If the confusion is due to my calling him "Bob," it was merely a figure of speech — not an identification.
 
...it's like believing God exists yet choosing to be a Satanist. It's dumb....
There are folks who actually do that. Something about "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven", which I think represents a severe misunderstanding about the concept of "hell".

And, like other deniers, he requires the documentary material in special formats (video) or Internet available.

For his stuff, an undated, unsourced photo, for example, is taken as conclusion proof of whatever claim he wants to make about it. A ready-made proof without the need, he thinks, for him to say anything beyond posting it.

For other matters, like brothels in the camps, cherrypicking what he posts about them is good enough for SnakeTongue - leaving out any material counter to the claim he makes, which, inevitably, is at odds with the omitted points and evidence.
"It's obvious!"

Does anyone have a link to this thread with "Bob"?
 
I'm a bit boggled about the allegation of a biased translation. As a native speaker of German it seems rather spot on without giving it any spin whatsoever. But then again, what do I know...?
 
What happened to Bob, er SnakeTongue, after ANTPogo savaged his copy-pasta? Did he go the way of Dogzilla and Saggy?
 
The Nazis constantly searched for more efficient means of extermination. At the Auschwitz camp in Poland, they conducted experiments with Zyklon B (previously used for fumigation) by gassing some 600 Soviet prisoners of war and 250 ill prisoners in September 1941. Zyklon B pellets, converted to lethal gas when exposed to air. They proved the quickest gassing method and were chosen as the means of mass murder at Auschwitz. At the height of the deportations, up to 6,000 Jews were gassed each day at Auschwitz.

United States Holocaust Museum, GASSING OPERATIONS

Now the question: how much corpses was the crematorium able to burn per day?

Some indication of the actual capacity of the crematoria may be found in a letter from the firm of Topf & Söhne to the Mauthausen concentration camp. It states that in the “coke-fuelled Topf dual-muffle cremation ovens… about ten to thirty-five corpses” could be cremated “in about ten hours” and that as many could be “cremated daily without overloading the ovens” even if 139 the “cremations took place one after the other, day and night.”

Schnabel, Macht ohne Moral, p. 346 (Document D 132)

6000 - 35 = 5965

That is only for one oven!

Let's suppose that there was 5!

6000 - (35*5) = 5825

You people so prone to not respect revisionists want be take serious?

The number speak for themselves!
 
Okay. You copied from Alvarez' list of criticisms, in the exact same order he had listed them, and merely rearranged some of the wording. The only new thing you added is the ridiculous "Google Translate" argument.

- Your first point was "Sending office code in the top right corner is not complete".

Alvarez's second point was "the name of the sending office is incomplete: instead of 'II D 3' it only states 'II D'."

- Your second point was "Letter serial number in the top right corner is identified with handwriting".

Alvarez' fourth point was "The letter's serial no. '167/42g' is handwritten, not typed".

- Your sixth point was "The paragraph starting with '2)' was inserted after the original letter was finished", and has two sub-points underneath it, "Slight rotation of the paragraph line when compared with the previous part of the letter" and "The paragraph is overwriting the original abbreviation 'I.A.' used in the end of the letter."

Alvarez' entire seventh point reads "The paragraph starting with '2.)' was typed (squeezed in over the 'I.A.' line) after the paper had been removed from the machine, resulting in it being shifted and slightly rotated."

- And, finally, your seventh point was "Officer 'Pradel' rank is wrongly identified as 'Major'.

Alvarez' ninth point was "Friedrich Pradel was not a major but rather an SS-Hauptsturmfueher (equivalent to a captain)."



To be fair, I only consider it dumb because it is dumb.



No, I merely said that not only are you wrong to rely on Google Translate, Google Translate doesn't even contradict McFee's translation, despite you claiming it does. Which makes you doubly wrong.



It certainly proves your accusation that it's been mistranslated isn't credible, since the same word has been translated the same way for sixty years now.



No, it'd be like you trying to argue that the word "Jehovah" doesn't actually refer to the God of the Hebrews in the books of the Bible, despite being shown that the word is always translated that way in the various books of the Bible that it appears in.



That is a massively weak dodge. Your accusation that McFee mistranslated "Hilfsmitteln" is just plain wrong, as shown by even a cursory glance at other documents produced by the same group German officers who were talking about the same thing.

I also like how you've gone from "surely the Germans left tons of documentation about gassing" to "woah, I'm only looking at one document, stop showing me all these other documents about the same thing."

This is how history works, SnakeTongue. Especially when you're trying to argue that a certain document is fake based on information contained in it.



Hmmm...strange how you completely and critically accept what an uncited page on a Czech website tells you as utterly authoritative, but demand additional documentary proof when I give you the actual multiply-cited words of someone who was actually there.

How about you show me the document which proves Pradel's rank was Hauptmann at the time the document was written?



You first.



So go look it up in the Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen archives yourself. I even gave you the exact reference.

Or do you really think that because it's not on the internet, it didn't happen?



...just as soon as you look up what other deniers have said about it so you can repeat it here.



You didn't "demonstrate" anything, you simply repeated what someone else claimed proved fraud, but which does no such thing.

Wow!

What a waste of time.

I am sorry for you have wasted your time typing all that above, but because someone already noticed what I noticed do not mean the fraud is not a fraud.

By the other way around: only proves that two independent analysis come to a similar conclusion.

The other proof from your whole reply is that you already know which analysis was made, which proves THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DENYING THE FACT THE DOCUMENT IS AN ALREADY PROVEN FRAUD!

WHO IS THE DENIER NOW?

I stand with my analysis. That document is not credible!

I WILL NOT FOLLOW YOUR SUBJECTIVE EFFORT TO DIVERT THE INITIAL SUBJECT.
 
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