Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[triforcharity]

I don't find that to be as much an "oops" as you apparently do, from what I know of Florida and especially the interior.

So, apparently nothing. Gotcha.

 

[WildCat]

I do find it amusing that people, including NPR, were using the incident to complain about white people in America, and Zimmerman turned out to be, apparently, Hispanic. Oops.

I'm not laughing at the incident itself, mind you.

It's been said here before, but Zimmerman is white, even though he's also Hispanic. Hispanic is not a race. Go to the Dominican Republic or Cuba and you'll find black Hispanics.

 

[Gazpacho]

So, apparently nothing. Gotcha.

Yeah, tell me more about being perfect.

Here is what I mean:
- There is racial animosity in present-day Florida, to a degree that is perceivable by other southerners. It is worse in the interior.
- I would not rule out that a white Hispanic man in that part of the state with the right grooming, manners and—oh yes—name could be perceived and perceive himself as white in relation to black people.

It doesn't matter whether you think I'm justified in believing this or whether it hurts your feelings. Interior Florida is a pretty place IMO, more than the coast which is terribly built up. But it's a mixed bag, like so many places.

 

[Noztradamus]

It's been said here before, but Zimmerman is white, even though he's also Hispanic. Hispanic is not a race. Go to the Dominican Republic or Cuba and you'll find black Hispanics.

Whose ancestors came from Hispania? You learn something every day.

 

[Darth Rotor]

None of this bickering brings that kid back from the dead, but it makes a number of posters here look like fools.

In other news, his mom just told the media that she is sure he was shot because he was black.

Possible confirmation bias?

On the other hand, given that her son was just shot dead, I'll cut her some slack on the "evidence" bit ... she's feeling some acute pain at the moment.

 

[000063]

I don't find that to be as much an "oops" as you apparently do, from what I know of Florida and especially the interior.

Florida? You mean that state with a whole lot of Hispanic people in it?

It's been said here before, but Zimmerman is white, even though he's also Hispanic. Hispanic is not a race. Go to the Dominican Republic or Cuba and you'll find black Hispanics.

So it's okay to refer to him as white for the purposes of generalizations about white people, especially when they're not even sure race was a factor?

I really, really hate it when people jump to conclusions. Sure, it was a reasonable conclusion, but still incorrect. At the very least, it's an "oops".

 

[Gazpacho]

I really, really hate it when people jump to conclusions. Sure, it was a reasonable conclusion, but still incorrect. At the very least, it's an "oops".

I read the NPR online report twice and listened to the broadcast report twice. If there's any jumping to conclusions or complaining about white people in America, I must be missing it.

 

[DavidByron]

In other news, his mom just told the media that she is sure he was shot because he was black.

That's silly. He was shot for being male.

 

[quadraginta]

That's silly. He was shot for being male.

He was shot for bad wardrobe choices.

Wearing a hooded sweatshirt on a rainy winter night ... with the hood up, no less!

Anyone with no more fashion sense than that must deserve what they get.

Right?

 

[WildCat]

Whose ancestors came from Hispania? You learn something every day.

Why yes, the DR and Cuba were once Spanish colonies. They speak Spanish there.

 

[WildCat]

I read the NPR online report twice and listened to the broadcast report twice. If there's any jumping to conclusions or complaining about white people in America, I must be missing it.

NPR isn't, but the radical black blogosphere is calling Zimmerman and his father "racial terrorists". Example

---------------------------------------------------------

In other news, the US Justice Dept. and the FBI will now look at the case: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html

I'm really not sure in what capacity.

 

[This is The End]

Wow this has really blown up in the last hour or so. Still reading the articles.

 

[quadraginta]

NPR isn't, but the radical black blogosphere is calling Zimmerman and his father "racial terrorists". Example

---------------------------------------------------------

In other news, the US Justice Dept. and the FBI will now look at the case: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html

I'm really not sure in what capacity.

I hadn't seen this particular claim before. From your link ...

Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired the semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry because he feared for his life.

​

Mr. Neighborhood Watch Superhero who prowls the area regularly and calls the police on a nearly weekly basis doesn't know what street he's on?

Sure. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

A teenager he outweighs by 100 lbs. who is walking home from the store attacks him out of the blue with no provocation ... from behind? A teenager he had already claimed he was following?

Okayyy.

Who could question any of that?

 

[crimresearch]

Either CNN or CNBC had a teaser that said/strongly implied it. I did not see the story (I am not a fan of news during the election cycle, I just want to get a democrat who can win so no republicker gets it)itself as they ran political fecal matter(the kind of thing I hate re:teasers anytime - they want you to watch 15 minutes or more of crap to get to what may actually be important - I don't have thatkind of time) instead of actual news..

Or maybe ABC:

The FBI, the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, and the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida will investigate the killing of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old Florida high school student, who was shot by a self-appointed neighborhood watchman.

"The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," a statement released by the Justice Department this evening said. "The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-justice-department-investigate-trayvon-martin-killing/story?id=15955985

 

[RandFan]

Just joining the discussion.

Sorry if I'm covering old territory.

I thought that this article in Mother Jones was pretty informative:

The Trayvon Martin Killing, Explained

(A lot of links to further information in there which I didn't include in the quote. Check out the article itself. It also includes audio of each of the 911 calls.)

Once the 9/11 operator told him not to follow Trayvon didn't he give up his protection of "stand your ground"? I think a case can easily be made of reckless disregard. Cops were summoned. Treyvon was not committing a crime. Manslaughter seems a fairly easy case to make. But then I'm not an expert.

 

[This is The End]

Updated AP article from 10 minutes ago:

<snip>

Fla. Police have described Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic and not racist.

<snip>

Against the advice of the 911 dispatcher, Zimmerman then followed Martin, who was walking home from a convenience store with a bag of Skittles in his pocket.

<snip>

The Justice Department said in a statement late Monday that the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's Office will join in the agency's investigation.

"The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," the agency said.

<snip>

But authorities may be hamstrung by a state law that allows people to defend themselves with deadly force. Prosecutors may not be able to charge Zimmerman because of changes to state law in 2005.

<snip>

Under the new law, there is no duty to retreat and it gives a Floridian the right "to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force," if he feels threatened.

<snip>

"If there is nobody around and you pull a gun, you just say, 'Hey, I reasonably believed I was under imminent attack. Hey, sorry. Too bad. But you can't prosecute me,'" Hill [a criminal defense attorney in Orlando] said, somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

<snip>

The "Stand Your Ground" law's legislative sponsor, Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, said it wasn't written to give people the power to pursue and confront others.

"That's not what this legislation does," said Baxley, a Republican. "Unfortunately, every time there is an unfortunate incident involving a firearm, they think it's about this law, and it's not."

 

[Checkmite]

I hadn't seen this particular claim before. From your link ...




Mr. Neighborhood Watch Superhero who prowls the area regularly and calls the police on a nearly weekly basis doesn't know what street he's on?

Sure. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

A teenager he outweighs by 100 lbs. who is walking home from the store attacks him out of the blue with no provocation ... from behind? A teenager he had already claimed he was following?

Okayyy.

Who could question any of that?

That entire claim is so wrong it's not even right. Zimmerman explicitly said on the phone that he was following Martin; and anyway, the struggle and shooting took place in a grassy area between two rows of townhomes, well away from Zimmerman's vehicle and the road.

 

[Gazpacho]

Once the 9/11 operator told him not to follow Trayvon didn't he give up his protection of "stand your ground"?

The dispatcher's remark that "you don't have to do that" is not an order that Zimmerman was legally bound to obey. As long as all the factors of SYG apply at the time of the shooting, I don't see that it matters legally how Zimmerman ended up in that situation.

If nobody else saw the fight between Zimmerman and Martin up to the moment of the shooting, then Zimmerman remains the only witness as to whether Martin was endangering him or not. (I don't believe Martin did, just trying to explain the situation with regard to evidence.)

 

[RandFan]

The dispatcher's remark that "you don't have to do that" is not an order that Zimmerman was legally bound to obey. As long as all the factors of SYG apply at the time of the shooting, I don't see that it matters legally how Zimmerman ended up in that situation.

If nobody else saw the fight between Zimmerman and Martin up to the moment of the shooting, then Zimmerman remains the only witness as to whether Martin was endangering him or not. (I don't believe Martin did, just trying to explain the situation with regard to evidence.)

So it is a license to kill? There are no consequences to one's actions. If you want to kill someone you only need to make certain you are alone, and claim self defense right?

Wow.

 

[RandFan]

The dispatcher's remark that "you don't have to do that" is not an order that Zimmerman was legally bound to obey. As long as all the factors of SYG apply at the time of the shooting, I don't see that it matters legally how Zimmerman ended up in that situation.

If nobody else saw the fight between Zimmerman and Martin up to the moment of the shooting, then Zimmerman remains the only witness as to whether Martin was endangering him or not. (I don't believe Martin did, just trying to explain the situation with regard to evidence.)

I'm listening to an attorney discussion the FBI involvement. SYG has no bearing on a hate crime. If they can demonstrate that the killing was motivated by racial animus then they can try him for that.