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WTC, Fire, and building collapse

tmd2_1 said:
*sigh* read the last paragraph of the link i posted. http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html
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tmd2:

I agree with ajm8125 that that article is a strawman from start to finish. It doesn't really address any of the actual science of fire burning and melting or weakening steel. You Truthers act as though heat of any kind can't diminish the integrity of steel at all, when heat is used in fabrication of steel everyday and it doens't require or involve thermite at all.
 
tmd2_1 said:
*sigh* read the last paragraph of the link i posted. http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html
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Gradual, isolated, asymmetrical failures spread out over time
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saght1.jpg


saght2-1.jpg


And finally

SouthDeformation.jpg
 
tmd2_1 said:
Here is just some information regarding the highway collapse. Saying it in any way gives credence to what happened on 9/11 is laughable.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/010507ludicrousfreeway.htm

http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html
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Before I start telling you all the errors and lies in those links, could I please ask you if you found anything that's wrong in one or both of these articles? I think you should find at least one flaw of fact or reason. If you can't, it's useless talking to you.
 
tsig said:
Professor Steven Jones, a Ph.D. physicist and cold fusion expert, joined Alex Jones on the air yesterday to talk about the monumental differences between the two collapses.
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Is it possible to be an expert in a non existent phenomena?
 
sheeplesnshills said:
Is it possible to be an expert in a non existent phenomena?
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It's not nonexistent. It is real in both theory and practice, but it does not produce power at levels which are useful. Jones et al. results were duplicated by Japanese and Russian scientists. Can't remember if it was the Muon-catalyzed or the metal.
 
alienentity said:
It's not nonexistent. It is real in both theory and practice, but it does not produce power at levels which are useful. Jones et al. results were duplicated by Japanese and Russian scientists. Can't remember if it was the Muon-catalyzed or the metal.
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Cold fusion is a proposed[1] type of nuclear reaction which would occur at relatively low temperatures compared to hot fusion. As a new type of nuclear reaction, it was proposed to explain reports by experimenters of anomalously high energy generation under certain specific laboratory conditions. It has been rejected by the mainstream scientific community because scientists have not been able to replicate the original experimental results consistently and reliably, and because there is no generally accepted theoretical explanation that accounts for the lack of nuclear byproducts.
 
tmd2_1 said:
*sigh* read the last paragraph of the link i posted. http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html
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The last paragraph doesn't explain anything:

We stand by that assertion. For a more detailed argument see Fire Initiated Collapse - Primary Arguments Against
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ETA: For what its worth, the second to last paragraph, which is actually a quote from elsewhere, doesn't do any better, it just hand waves away the whole argument:

For the record, few in the scientific community doubt that it's theoretically possible for a building to experience failure if it is subjected to devastating heat for a sufficient period of time. And additional factors like no fire-proofing, no sprinkler systems, insufficient steel to "bleed off" heat or inferior construction greatly increase the possibility. However, what is "doubted" (or more accurately; considered downright impossible) is that such a failure would resemble anything like what was witnessed on 9/11. Gradual, isolated, asymmetrical failures spread out over time...perhaps. Simultaneous disintegration of all load bearing columns (leaving a pile of neatly folded rubble a few stories high)...no way.
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What the heck do they mean by "Simultaneous disintegration" and "neatly folded"??? Where was that??? I sure would like to see a picture of that.
 
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For the record, few in the scientific community doubt that it's theoretically possible for a building to experience failure if it is subjected to devastating heat for a sufficient period of time. And additional factors like no fire-proofing, no sprinkler systems, insufficient steel to "bleed off" heat or inferior construction greatly increase the possibility. However, what is "doubted" (or more accurately; considered downright impossible)(my edit: but not by the aforementioned scientific community as a whole) is that such a failure would resemble anything like what was witnessed on 9/11. Gradual, isolated, asymmetrical failures spread out over time...perhaps. Simultaneous disintegration of all load bearing columns (leaving a pile of neatly folded rubble a few stories high)...no way.
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"devastating heat for a sufficient period of time" is the kicker here. In 'normal' office fire circumstances a fire takes hours to build to the state that was the fires in the towers within seconds of the impacts, due to the influx of thousands of gallons of accelerant. In addition, significant amounts of fire insulation would have been scrubbed off by the impacts allowing a greater rate of temperature rise of that steel.
Furthermore the impacts themselves mechanically removed a significant amount of structural integrity from the very same floors where the fires ignited.

Isolated asymmetric local failures are more likley in a regular post and beam construction where adjacent columns are spread out and responsible for smaller portions of a floor's vertical load, but will be much greater when columns are concentrated and responsible for a large percentage of any one floor's vertical loading.

In the Windsor fire, perimeter columns failed, note that in the WTC towers if a perimeter column fails then the load on the entire floor between central core and perimeter will now have to be borne by the adjacent perimeter columns(trusses don't offer much in cantilever mode) At best now those two adjacent columns have 50% more load than they originally had. Now heat them up to even 150C and they will begin to buckle.
Do this in various places all around the floor and it WILL fail rapidly at some point.
 
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tmd2_1 said:
Here is just some information regarding the highway collapse. Saying it in any way gives credence to what happened on 9/11 is laughable.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/010507ludicrousfreeway.htm

http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html
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What-EVAH!

Now, you got anything from somebody with the brains to pour effluent out of a boot with instructions stsamped on the heel?

Watson has **** for training or experience in fire investigations. Go find somebody not all ate-up with Dunning-Kruger.
 
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